Ep. 112 - Planning and Zoning
Download MP3Hey, and welcome to another episode of Tell Me More. I'm Luke Stair. And today, I'm back, and we have Katie Reed Hodges and doctor Wiles, and we're talking about what it looks like to rebuild your life. And so there's some more practical talk as we think through this and we hope it's edifying and meaningful for you to listen.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Welcome to this week's episode of Tell Me More. We're obviously here. It's really Monday morning. And, Luke, you're back with us.
Luke Stehr:I'm back.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It's Luke and D Dub. Okay. Real quick, Luke. You were gone last week. I was.
Katy Reed-Hodges:But you weren't on family vacation. You weren't sick. What were you doing?
Luke Stehr:I was with a team of our staff on an exploratory trip to, some of our Ascent Network partners, the Canadian Baptist Ministries and the French Speaking Baptist Union, kind of examining potential for future partnerships. We we. Monsieur. We we. And, how about that?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:How about that?
Katy Reed-Hodges:About let's talk about it. I'm excited to hear more like in at a staff level, at Staff meetings and just to unpack it.
Luke Stehr:We're I think it's a lot to digest.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And I texted, but it was very, very quick responses.
Luke Stehr:So, you know, I think we think Canada, we think it's one culture, it's one place, but I mean, literally we spent the first half of the week and what could have easily been, you know, a major city in France, and then, moved to one of the most densely populated cities that is the most ethnically diverse city on the face of the planet. Is
Katy Reed-Hodges:that the claim really?
Luke Stehr:That's the UN
Katy Reed-Hodges:as Toronto.
Luke Stehr:Toronto is according to the UN, the most ethnically diverse city on the face of the planet.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I think when I was there, that was the most shocking thing to me. Toronto, just how
Luke Stehr:the world is there.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. There's a fascinating.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I did, I did Uptick, which is a leadership cohort through Virginia Baptist at the time. I think it's growing more nationally in 2017. So that is becoming a long time ago, but they took us to Toronto, and it was all women. It happened to be all women in my group. And we did some cultural competency and just what a what a place to learn from.
Katy Reed-Hodges:The Baptist in Toronto who are doing really faithful work in a much more especially 7 years ago when I was
Luke Stehr:Baptist all across Canada. They're doing really faithful work. Definitely.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yes. I would, I would think that to be true. My only exposure is Toronto and, but they were too, we could definitely learn a lot from them. It was, they were humble, godly, but living in a post Christian culture. And so they just had really sharp insights and it was cool.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I'm glad we're, we're kind of exploring all that.
Luke Stehr:As we parse that out, I think what stands out to me most about our Canadian Baptist brothers and sisters, both in the French speaking union, and in, CBM, which is Canadian Baptist ministries. It's like the mission arm of Canadian Baptist churches across Canada. They are so filled with hope. You know,
Katy Reed-Hodges:so despite being in like a really,
Luke Stehr:despite being in a place where there's no cultural support and in the case of our French speaking brothers and sisters, sometimes cultural opposition, they're actually filled with just a tremendous amount of hope and what the, what the gospel can do and how God is at work. And they're doing, I think really faithful work. That's guided by the hope that I think once you get to that place that only God can bring. So some beautiful, wonderful conversations, people that I would love for our church to get exposed to.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Cool teaser. That's a fun teaser. Yeah. I like it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I do too.
Katy Reed-Hodges:To be continued. Wouldn't you say?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And it's fascinating. The culture there in Canada is fascinating to me. I think when at first, I only met once, I just assumed that the Anglican church was incredibly prominent, historically British colony, you know, and I just I'd never really done any research about Canada and knew really nothing about it except for the Montreal Expos and the Toronto Blue Jays. Those are 2 baseball teams in case y'all don't know. Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:That's the extent of your research, your Canadian
Dr.Dennis Wiles:expos no longer exist.
Luke Stehr:Yeah. They're the nationals now. But the Blue Jays.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:But I mean, I had read about the the cultural mix in Toronto because we had friends that had done a little work there, but I, but I hadn't really had any, I'd never really given it much thought. Just for
Luke Stehr:perspective and Toronto, we actually spent a lot of time with churches and I don't think we visited a single church where white people were the majority. The actual, the largest churches in Ontario and Quebec, which are the 2 provinces we went to, the 2 largest Baptist churches are actually both Chinese cultural churches. So you start talking to Canadian Christians who are Euro Euro Canadians of Canadians of European descent. And they actually look at immigration from the world and they kind of say like, I think to quote one of them, oh, the cavalry, the cavalry's coming, because it's Christians moving in from around the world that are actually bringing life to gospel movements. And so we spent time with lots of Chinese Baptist churches.
Luke Stehr:We had a super meaningful conversation and time at a, at the middle Eastern Baptist church of Mississauga city, which is the city outside Toronto. So just let that settle in your brains then. We're at middle Eastern Baptist church, and they are just living so faithfully and dynamically in the power of the gospel and their neighborhoods. So it's beautiful stuff.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. That's great. And plans y'all got to go. We're looking forward to hearing more about it. Me too.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Me too. Fun. Okay.
Luke Stehr:Got a process.
Katy Reed-Hodges:While y'all were gone.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Here we are.
Luke Stehr:Are y'all were here?
Katy Reed-Hodges:While y'all were gallowing. Here. Just kidding. We we were here, and doctor Wells preached, did you miss 2 Sundays? Just 1.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Okay. Okay. Okay. Anyway, so you you were here for the last one that we unpacked in the last week's podcast. But this one yesterday, which you've listened to, I know, but you were, worshiping in Canada.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I think it's really landing with our people. Mhmm. Have you heard feedback like that?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yes.
Katy Reed-Hodges:This is my assessment. Yeah. That people are really
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Mhmm.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It's very practical for their lives right now. And so lots to talk about in that way. I have a lot kind of most of the questions I have are unpacking the application, the lessons to be learned part of your sermon. You had 5 points there. Is there anything you wanna say about the text itself?
Katy Reed-Hodges:Because these stories are great. I mean, they're well written. Mhmm. They're exciting. Mhmm.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I'm so glad that they made
Dr.Dennis Wiles:it into the bible. Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And I'm and I'm so thankful that they're captured in that way for us.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Like, it's I've told y'all this the in reading through Ezra, like, well, they don't want me to do this, so they wrote me this letter. Here's the letter. Well, then I wrote them back this letter, and here's the letter. And then we waited for 16 years, and now we're back. You know?
Katy Reed-Hodges:And it's just great narrative. It's just great narrative old testament. So anything that stuck out in the text to you, doctor Wiles, as you've been studying this and reading up, particularly in this story?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Well, I would probably say just that. Just how truly riveting it actually is. You know? That these are real stories of real people. And I I would tell you when I when I went to seminary, years ago, I knew nothing about the intertestamental period.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You know, I'd I'd never given it much thought. I'd been to Sunday school, you know, and I had read my bible at a certain level, I guess, but I hadn't given a whole lot of thought to how did we get to where we were 1st century Israel, 1st century Jerusalem, and what Jesus encountered. And to me, I I feel like this particular, journey through Ezra and Nehemiah helps us and prepares us for deeper conversations about what took place in the life of Jesus because it sets the stage for so much of what we just encounter, when we come to the time of Christ. And it's easy to skip over because, you know, you have the the story of David and Solomon and building the temple and, you know, having a king over Israel and all that is it's it's, you know, those are, I think they are well known
Katy Reed-Hodges:stories. Epic.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:But then when you get to what happened after the division of Israel and Judah? It gets kinda fuzzy. I think in people's minds, you know.
Katy Reed-Hodges:We talked about this last week, I think, or maybe even 2 weeks ago. Just that the exile isn't as well known. It's not its own book in the bible, and it is harder of a story to tell quickly. I mean, the Exodus is Mhmm. Sweeping.
Luke Stehr:It's a book. Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It's a book. And the story is not succinct. It's because it's got a lot of beauty in it. But you could tell it pretty quickly to kids. I mean, it's pretty simple in that way.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It's undersold though, I think.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah. The exile? Yes. Yes. I I I and I wish that well, I say I wish we could learn more about it.
Katy Reed-Hodges:We are. So I'm I guess, more than I wish. I'm glad that we're
Dr.Dennis Wiles:We're doing it.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Keeping out in it. And I don't want our people to I think I got a little rant. Not a bad way, but, like, not a high horse, just passionate. Last week, because I think the exile is is such a good metaphor for our own lives.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It is.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It does set a more modern history for Jesus coming into it. Mhmm. Luke, you were talking about and I wanna ask you about this too. Just even yesterday, the there's just these passages. That's why I was talking about how great it is, but in Ezra, they're rebuilding the temple and the old guard, the old the older people are weeping because they knew it was former glory.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And the younger people are rejoicing because it's here Mhmm. And they've rebuilt it. And
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And they're participating in it.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah. And it's theirs.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Right? Admiring it. Yeah. Yes. And relishing its history.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It's quite a fast
Katy Reed-Hodges:You wanna say more? I I know. I'm like, how deep do I wanna dig on this one? They are. And it's this, it's a very rich metaphor for many things.
Katy Reed-Hodges:You could apply that to many, many situations. You could apply that to our church. And I don't know how much we wanna camp out right there, but there are young people who are excited to just be on the journey and be part of the building and this new thing even if it doesn't look like the old thing. Mhmm. Because they never even saw the old thing.
Katy Reed-Hodges:They just
Dr.Dennis Wiles:heard about it. Exactly right.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Right? And but you have the people who blood, sweat, and tears built the old thing and it got ravished. And they're just sad of what is not I mean, I'm pushing 40. I've got a little of both in me. I mean, depending on the situation and depending on what it is.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Right. You know, we don't have to go into my own introspection. But there are things that I helped to build that aren't relevant anymore. Mhmm. Because I'm because I see it now.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I've been in
Dr.Dennis Wiles:ministry for 50 years. Jurassic Park stuff that happened in the past, that now we're in a new era.
Luke Stehr:Is that what you're talking about? Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And they keep making new
Katy Reed-Hodges:Jurassic Park movies. And they suck.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Excuse me.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I'm that church language. Sorry. Yeah. Old Jurassic Park was really good. And new Jurassic Park is fan fiction.
Luke Stehr:And there's gonna be new
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Jurassic Park. Still haven't seen it.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And I, as an elder millennial, weep. Weep. And my children may rejoice Man. Because they don't know better. That's right.
Luke Stehr:Who knew Jurassic Park could be such a pervasive?
Katy Reed-Hodges:But I think, you know, we we could talk about and we some of this is big picture, and we we're not trying to talk about one particular thing at our church, but there are things and we've talked about, even and I don't I love Mission Arlington. And as the care minister at our church, it is so necessary. That's not the right word. Vital to what we do. Because every week, I'm to take people over there, the resources.
Katy Reed-Hodges:So I totally believe in what they do. But we have talked about some like, people my parents' age, they built that. And man, the the honor they feel and the ownership, it is a deeper level than my generation. Now, I'm not saying I'm not saying one thing or the other on just one That's one
Dr.Dennis Wiles:example though.
Luke Stehr:It's a level of connection.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It's a level of connection. That's what I I'm not saying, oh, I just wanna make sure our listeners here, like, I need miss Arlington to be what it is, fruitful, flourishing Mhmm. Next door
Dr.Dennis Wiles:For sure.
Katy Reed-Hodges:For us. But, you know, the the level of ownership, yeah, they built it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It's just different.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It is different. But I
Dr.Dennis Wiles:think when it comes to this text, it it's confusing to people because you can't just sit down and read Ezra without having some well, let me let me back up. You can sit down as you read Ezra. So okay.
Katy Reed-Hodges:But you'd be a little lost.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:But You wouldn't You need to you need a little guidance. You need somebody to hold your hand a little bit because the first six chapters, Ezra's not even there. This all happens before Ezra even shows up. Right. And it's about the temple and its reconstruction, and it's a riveting story.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It's just not Ezra's story. Mhmm. But it still has his name, and that's what's confusing about it. You don't get Ezra till Ezra 7, and then you start getting his own personal journey. And when he arrives, he's facing a whole different set of issues that are in the life of Israel.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Mhmm. The pollution of their marriages, the misunderstanding of the law, the the kinds of things that would really trouble Ezra.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Whereas Joshua and Zerubbabel were just trying to get this temple rebuilt. They needed the worship practices
Katy Reed-Hodges:to be restored in the life
Dr.Dennis Wiles:of Israel because they they felt like that there was this massive vacuum in in their ability to even be Israel, so to speak. Well, Ezra shows up with a whole different set of circumstances. It's a different context, And then you just keep reading, you get to Nehemiah. Well, then you've, you've had to fast forward again. There's a whole nother set of issues with Nehemiah that he's facing.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So I've enjoyed trying to put all that together for our people so they can read it and understand, oh, okay, this is what's going on right now. You know, just like all the excitement in Ezra 3, then they Zerubbabel then lay the foundation, they they start hiring workers, masons, and architects, and they order all the supplies from Lebanon, and and, you know, all this activity is a flurry of activity. It's exciting. They're they're gonna they're actually gonna do this, you know, and then the opposition mounts. You know?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And then the next thing, you know, the whole the all you have now is a foundation, and you go 16 years. And as I was saying yesterday in, in the sermon, that sounds like nothing in the biblical air. Oh, okay. 16 years past. Okay.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Then they started rebooting. Well, just imagine if we had started a project here at our church and, and it's been 10 years and we hadn't finished it, people would be going, okay, what, what are we doing? Well, it's been 12 years.
Luke Stehr:We have for perspective, you know, the children in pre K in pre K ministry would be 21.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Right, exactly.
Luke Stehr:That's a completion. You got it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And then all of a sudden, 16 years
Katy Reed-Hodges:ago work for us. Right.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I mean, that's not really hard, but that's what they did. Mhmm. And they lived with it all the time. So just imagine how some of those younger people who rejoiced over the foundation of the temple being made, and now the work ends. And you're wondering, are we is there really going to be a temple here?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So just some of the challenges they were facing to me is important. And so that's why I love just contextualizing the text of our people, and then just let them read it for themselves and experience it for themselves, you know, and and even some people probably wonder, well, why is the wall around Jerusalem so important? I mean, come on, you know. I mean, Nehemiah shows up in his rear ends on fire about building a wall. Well, in that era, that was the main way to provide for the survival of your people
Luke Stehr:Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You know, and to have a vibrant city. If you're going to have a city that large, you've got to be able to protect it and have access for your people.
Luke Stehr:Yeah. I think we forget how dangerous life was outside of cities. Yes. And even by the time you get to like Jesus and Roman roads exists that are, you know, kind of surveyed and policed by Roman guards. Exactly.
Luke Stehr:Still dangerous. So, so dangerous in Jesus's time. And that's with some level of infrastructure in Nehemiah's time, there's no infrastructure life outside the city was nothing but dangerous.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And so the people felt vulnerable and, and me and I knew that. And for him to be able to come in and, and, and, and I, and I think one of the things that I want to encourage our people in, I believe rebuilding is harder than building. I just think it requires a different kind of energy, and, because usually when you're building something for the first time, there's a lot of fresh new energy, you know, and you haven't you've had you haven't had to deal with obstacles and brokenness and Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And you kinda get to plan it Yeah. However you want it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Right. But to rebuild It's usually more brimming or something like that. More of a challenge because you it kind of implies you've already built something else. Yeah. And so now it's time to rebuild.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I mean, if you think about, like, if a tornado hit your house.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Right. Mhmm.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It killed your kitchen and your dining room. Mhmm.
Luke Stehr:Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:You've gotta rebuild with the original Mhmm. You know, the foundation's already there. Mhmm. The plumbing the way it is. Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:If you're gonna redo that, that's more work than just building a new kitchen.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's right.
Luke Stehr:Mhmm.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And so you you have these things that happen in your life. Okay? You've built a life. Yeah. Alright?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It's like yesterday, I went and helped lead a funeral for my best friend from seminary. Well, his wife and I talked when it was over. We we were my goodness. We did vacations together. We had children together.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Well, I went back home. You know, I I drove an hour and a half home.
Katy Reed-Hodges:To your life. You're
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And my wife was there waiting, and, we went and had dinner. Debbie went home Yeah. And there's no gym. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And and they've built a life together Right. A family, kids, and grandkids, and and had plans for their future. Yeah. So she and I were talking just how she's not ready to to decide anything, obviously. You know, we're this has been very fresh for her, but she and I talked a little bit, and she told me.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:She said, well, I realize, I'm gonna have to I've gotta reassess and just determine what's this next season like for me. Well, it's gonna be a challenge. It's a rebuilding of life when that happens to us. We lose a job. Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So many things, have triplets, move across the country. Preach.
Luke Stehr:I've only done that a couple of times.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I thought about that with career though. Like, if you're 45 and you realize you hate what you're doing Mhmm. That's harder than, you have no degree at all at 20. Mhmm. It's harder at 45 with the family or whatever to say, I'm gonna change this.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's right.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Like
Luke Stehr:Yeah. There's a huge amount
Katy Reed-Hodges:of taxes. Degree you don't want or whatever that is, you know. And you're like, gosh. That's so much harder than building it for the first time and making those decisions afresh and without the baggage of I hate to call the family's not baggage, but it makes it harder to, zig when you should zag or whatever. You know, that
Dr.Dennis Wiles:history and heritage. And Yeah. And so you come into Jerusalem and you got people like Nehemiah shows up. Well, you got people who've just been living there and they've been going back and forth to markets. They've been crossing the rubble there in the valley.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:They've they've made roads around it, you know, that and and there it all is. And Nehemiah shows up and says, do y'all see all these boulders laying here in the valley? And they're like, yeah. We see them every day. And he's like, you know, they used to be a wall.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's what they used to be. And so we need to, we need to fix this. And so it's hard to muster up that energy,
Luke Stehr:which I think we've talked about this too, before. I think we forget that there are people living in the land when Ezra and Nehemiah started. And these are the, like the Babylonians way of conquest was they systematically took the smart, basically the elite class, the intelligent people, the skilled people, they just took them out. So if you take out the artisans who knew how to build a wall, you took out the city planners who knew how to organize it. You take out all of those people.
Luke Stehr:What you're left with
Dr.Dennis Wiles:are just, just impoverished people who were, and didn't have the skills necessary. They it evidently, they took the poets and the musicians because, you know, you read Psalm 137, they're asking them to sing. Yeah. So you've taken kind of the heart out of the community and and you've and it's it's it was a terrible, I mean you read I was reading this morning, I think Jeremiah gets undersold as well because Isaiah, his next door neighbor is so big. By the time you get through Isaiah, you're like, Oh yeah, Jeremiah, I'll get to Jeremiah one day.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah, you're like
Luke Stehr:In Jeremiah is bigger by what? New Testament. Yeah, But
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I'm just saying Isaiah is a giant in the prophetic world. You know? He's just so famous, and Jeremiah lives next door to him in the Bible. You're like, okay. Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I'll get to Jeremiah one day. But you go back and read the destruction of Jerusalem and that whole journey, and, you know, Jeremiah gets thrown in prison. They drop him in a cistern, you know, they beat him and he's just trying to tell the truth. He's just trying to say, this is what's going to happen. And he Chronicles just how awful it was and how devastating it was and how they killed all these people.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And it's not like Nebuchadnezzar was a, a reasonable, guy. He was a despot in many ways. And so, you know, he he'll bring the king's family in and just slaughter them all right in front of him. You know? I mean, it was awful what they did to Jerusalem, how they destroyed it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And so these people were devastated.
Luke Stehr:And you're essentially left with unskilled laborers in the land.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:All due respect. That's really what you're left with.
Luke Stehr:It's not their fault that the wall is not rebuilt. They just they didn't have That's exactly right.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Leaders. They know how to
Luke Stehr:do this. So you got it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And so and even the wherewithal, they even think they could, I think. And so, yeah, it was a devastating time. And so to rebuild all of this is is miraculous. And what I love about it is it sets the stage, like I said, for for Jesus. When Jesus comes, that's the wall that surrounds Jerusalem.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:The gates that Jesus walks through are the gates that were were restored during the time of Nehemiah. You know, the temple that Jesus worships is the temple that Zerubbabel built. I mean, this is we're we're
Luke Stehr:Jesus's ancestor, by the way.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's exactly right. Yeah. So we're we're we're we're seeing something right in front of us materialize that's gonna have a massive impact upon our faith and our story. So yeah. But I think I think the practical, side of all this is what's been attractive to our people because it it's connecting, you know, for all of us, I believe.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And and it and it lends itself to be practically, just laid out. I think it does. So so yesterday's message was that next step, you know, after you've assessed, as I said yesterday, well, now you've gotta start making plans. Now that that's really where the water hits the wheel, so to speak. You know?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So what are you going to do now that you realize where you are? Now what? You know? That's kinda what I feel like where we were yesterday. So
Katy Reed-Hodges:You talk about it? We can. You wanna get into it?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:We can.
Luke Stehr:Let's roll.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Now what? Last
Luke Stehr:week 20 minutes in.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Last week, you just and it's been a great 20 minutes.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It has been. It has been.
Katy Reed-Hodges:But last week Riveting. Riveting. Much like Ezra. Much like Ezra.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I think so.
Katy Reed-Hodges:This no. I'm just kidding. I was gonna say something about canonization or, you know, preservation. Not true. Last week, we kinda did a You Are Here, which is very important to know, to be honest.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Crucial. Honest assessment, very important. This week though, is then what?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Now do something about them.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Now do something. And so you gave us these 5 points, these 5 lessons to be learned. I think there's a few, if it's okay, can I just I'm gonna lob them out? I want us to go a bit deeper with them.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:K.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Okay. You said this, and I think it's very valuable. You're not by yourself when you're rebuilding. Mhmm. And there's 2 parts to that.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Let's go first with this. You called it spiritual resources. But this idea that we have the holy spirit at work within us Mhmm. And any any measure of effort that we have to rebuild, God is with us Mhmm. And equipping us to do more than we can do on our own.
Katy Reed-Hodges:So I'm gonna lob that out because there's a lot could talk about. So, Luke, where does that land with you? D Dub, what do you think about that? Mhmm. What do you have in mind when you say that?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Mhmm.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And we can get practical. What resources do we mean are available to people?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Well, I I would, obviously, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, I think, is incredibly vital to us.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Which we all do very well as
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Baptist. We undersell a little bit, actually.
Katy Reed-Hodges:So you could camp out there as long as
Dr.Dennis Wiles:you want. It makes us nervous. You know, when I was a little kid growing up, we didn't even call him the Holy Spirit. He was the Holy Ghost,
Luke Stehr:Which is somehow creepier. I know.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And he was an it.
Katy Reed-Hodges:How did y'all decide that? He
Dr.Dennis Wiles:was always an it, you know, in my upbringing. You know, you you if the holy spirit comes, well, it'll it'll make a difference. And, you know, I'm I can remember when I first started realizing, well, the Holy Spirit is really a He. It's not that we were heretical. It's the way we talked about it.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It's a
Luke Stehr:personal language, not objects like this.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Exactly. Right. So, the spirit of God at work in us, the power that the spirit of God brings, the revelation of God. Is when I told that story Sunday about how this this guy I go to his business sometimes and he comes up to me and tells me he's just had a heart attack, you know, a while back since I've seen him. And then he starts describing to me how the bible has just come alive in this journey.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And I'm like, well, yeah. Absolutely. He's like, I can't believe. He said, my wife and I, every night, this is our conversation. Every night is about what God is saying to us.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. And it's working. He said it's and I'm listening to him talking. He said just I'm exhibit a. I mean, this guy's had a heart attack.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:His whole life has been threatened, and he feels like he's got a new lease on life. And he's and he's more energized about his faith than he's ever been. It was interesting, and I told him, hopefully that's going to stay with you. Let's keep staying in there. Let's give God a chance to speak to you.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:He said, It's guiding me in my conversations with my daughter. She's asking these questions like, Dad, you had this heart attack. I know. And look, look, I've survived. Look at me.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Now I'm gonna change my diet. Look what they found. They found this blockage. I could have died. I had no idea this was going on, and they found this blockage and they fixed it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I've got a whole new new lease on life, and now God is speaking to me. And he said, so it's even helped me in my conversation with my grown daughter. And he said, I feel like I'm getting the resources to manage all this. Well, that's what God does. You know, it's drawing on those kind of resources.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Mhmm. The scripture, the the witness of spirit, your prayer life.
Luke Stehr:Well, I think about you saying, talking about this man's story, him saying, and there's, we read the daily reading plan and there's a word just for us every day. And that's, that's the holy spirit speaking through the word of God that we have in our hands.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yes. And I think that's a part of this journey. So we don't just do this with our own ingenuity. I mean, the Lord's given us a brain and, and I'm good with that. But I would also say I pray for wisdom every day.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I do. I ask the Lord to help me every day for what I'm I have no idea what I'm going to encounter. I know what's on my calendar, but I have no clue what's going to happen. I mean, last night, we had a a a guy in our church. I got a text from his wife, and he's a happy, healthy guy.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And he had a a a health episode yesterday or over the weekend that I had I had no idea was even possible for him. Well, next thing you know, last night, I'm, after dinner late, Cindy and I decided, let's just run by the hospital and just see them. We go by. Well, there everything has been put on hold, you know, for this particular episode. Didn't see it coming.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Had no idea this is something that he might be facing. And we talked about that and talked about how grateful we were that we're in this room praying, seeking God's wisdom and counsel, thanking God for the provision of medical technology. I mean, in a room a state of the art ICU room, you know, and it was not lost on either one of them. I mean, he was conscious. We were talking about it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And and, I just thought, well, thank you, lord. You know? And and I I I thought when soon I got in the car, we said, man, you never know what a day is gonna you wake up in the morning and have no idea what the day is gonna break. So we pray
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And seek those those resources.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So I would just say if you're in that season, it's time to make a plan. Don't make the plan by yourself. You know, ask God for wisdom.
Katy Reed-Hodges:You know? And don't just work hard to get out of the pit. Right.
Luke Stehr:And I think I would point back to our podcast that we did for the neology episode. So if you haven't listened to that episode, we did a lot of talking about prayer and discernment. Even if you listen to it and you're thinking about, well, how do I listen for a plan? Go back and rewatch re listen to that episode.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:But you also not just, not just that you also, if you're in a Christian here in the church, well, you've got the people of God in your life. Okay.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Let's transition to that one. You know? Cause that's, yes, you're not alone.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's right.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Both in you're not alone even if you're alone. Like, you've got the spirit of God with you. But in the community of God Mhmm. It's becoming increasingly countercultural or unique, to that we're here for each other.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Free of cost. It's not a service. It's, it's our own initiative through the spirit of God working together for the community. And so I do wanna talk about that too. What does that look like?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You've got people in the church. If you're part of a community of faith, you've got people who've had all kinds of rich experiences in their life, and they have a heart for you. They care about
Katy Reed-Hodges:you
Dr.Dennis Wiles:know, our daughter is is still, you know, in in the middle of her second round of chemo, dealing with with breast cancer. Well, I'm I'm trying to imagine how we would have made this this last almost a year now, I guess. Not not a year, I guess. It's been about how many ever months.
Katy Reed-Hodges:How we would Felt like a year ago.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:How would we have made it without this church? I think about all the things that have happened. The the the times our grandchildren have been picked up and cared for and taken to places. How many meals have been delivered? How many people have house sat?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:How many people have been with us? How many people that have been on the journey have come and sat down with us to say, you know, this is what I went through. This is this is how we manage this. How many people have done that with our daughter? How many, how many people have prayed for us?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:This past Sunday morning, I probably had, no less than 10 church members come up and ask me, how's your daughter doing? You know, I pray for her every night or I pray for your daughter every week. I pray for your daughter every Monday. I pray for your daughter every morning when I get up.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I mean I've I've been standing next to you and people say that.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. It's just It's all the time. It's it's incredible. They do it
Katy Reed-Hodges:in it. They're not just saying that because you're the pastor.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Right. Right. So how does that make it's actually how it makes me feel. It's the strength that we draw for, the practical strength that we can we can do this because we're surrounded by people who truly do have these kind of resources.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's what the church to me is. If you're rebuilding your life, not only do you have the Lord, you're not you're not by yourself, you have other people all around you
Luke Stehr:Right.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Who have incredible life experiences, you know, and you can draw upon that. That's the beauty also, y'all, of being in a multigenerational church.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Mhmm. I
Dr.Dennis Wiles:mean, look out look at that church. Look at the people that are part of this church and what they've been through. I know I know Katie, you've been through
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah. I know.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So much. You think about even, like, some of the groups you're up in the lead. You know, if you're
Katy Reed-Hodges:doing grief share, cancer
Dr.Dennis Wiles:care Yeah. Yeah. You you you are drawing upon the wisdom of some
Katy Reed-Hodges:incredible people. Absolutely. The leaders that we have in the care ministry alone Mhmm. And that's I'm excluding a lot of people just by doing that. Right.
Katy Reed-Hodges:In the care ministry alone, the leaders we have that execute ministry every week on our behalf Mhmm. Is I'd I'd put it up against anybody. Mhmm. Not that we're competing with other churches. Right.
Katy Reed-Hodges:But, my gosh. I mean, you've got Joyce Ashcroft, Lee and Grish here. Joyce could lead. Joyce is a great leader.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. Cancer survivor.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yes. But she's not even leading the cancer support. I mean, Joyce is, a capable, competent leader, a career in ministry, has retired and wants to serve her church in deeper ways, and she's killing it. Alongside Brandi Dalton, who, kinda submitted herself to lead CWJC, so took a backseat on that. You've got I mean, you can't meet those.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Any church would want those 2 women leading anything. And that's just one room. Across the hall, you've got Jeff Kinnamer and Tonya Cartwright leading divorce care.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. Unbelievable.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And that's where I say this is a unique and valuable thing. So many people in Arlington would benefit from a divorce care ministry.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. Of course.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I mean, it it ruins your life for a moment. It feels like it's ruining your life. And we've got this this caring and competent leaders, and that's where I'm, like, what a a counter cultural and unique thing that people are missing out on by not being a part of a church. Yeah. Or being in our church and not taking taking the opportunity to
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's true.
Katy Reed-Hodges:To have the support that you need. Because there are people in our church that are, grieving quietly. Mhmm. And I hate that. And I'm sorry.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And y'all should come to grief here. And I get it if it's not time or whatever. But or going through a divorce quietly because it's just too much to face at your own church, and I hate that so much for our people. Not to mention the other thing.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Us know. That's the thing. If not well, a lot of our a lot of folks who listen to this podcast message are church members. Let us know because
Luke Stehr:We're here for you.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:We have so many and you would not know. I'm I mean I would say I've been at this church for a while.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yep.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I know a lot of stories, and I've listened, you know, and I have found them out in the most random ways. You know, I have just through the years, I've had people as we're just having a conversation, and they'll say, well, you know, when my son was killed in a car wreck, we thought the world was and I'm like
Katy Reed-Hodges:You've lost a child? I didn't
Dr.Dennis Wiles:know your son was killed in a car. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and my son drowned in the, at this accident at the lake, and I'm like, I didn't know you had a son that drowned. I mean, I've had we have a treasury of people who have rebuilt their lives.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You know? They're they're scattered all over this congregation.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And they're they're flourishing so much you don't even know it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's right. You
Katy Reed-Hodges:don't even know that they had this big thing.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. So that's what you can draw from. That's the beauty of it.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And you all know, and I've said this many times, but I'll probably say it till I die. The community support from the church, specifically, because our families helped as well, from the church that we experienced when we had the triplets Mhmm. It's unmatched. Like, we had a meal train for I think it was 70 days straight. Not like a 70 day period every other day.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Like, 70 nights in a row, the church fed us because we were dying.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And you're overwhelmed.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And then for the entire year until their first birthday, we had mostly church women in our home every single night. They they organized themselves
Luke Stehr:because
Katy Reed-Hodges:they were like I mean, I I think Jenny Lunningham is coming over tonight, and I think she still just feels sorry for us.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I mean, I was like,
Katy Reed-Hodges:but she's like, y'all need the help. We're like, we do. We do need the help, but they just saw a need.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Right.
Katy Reed-Hodges:And Right. Through their own spirit. Right? The spirit working in them, their own compassion, they just meet the need. They see a need and they meet it because they love God and love his people.
Luke Stehr:And so I think if you're at that point of having to rebuild, I mean, you've talked about this. I think if you've ever been to that point, you know, and you're on the other side, you know, that there is a humility that you have to, and it's pain. The humility is hard.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It is. It's a passion
Luke Stehr:into saying, I actually, I may not even be able to recognize how much I need help, but I know I need help. I had a house fire, you know, shortly after I graduated college and I was working at a Christian camp and retreat center. I lost everything I had. And so to move from having what I needed to having the clothes on my back, quite literally like is my only worldly possession. You quickly learn like, oh, I actually need other people.
Luke Stehr:And it was so humbling to just accept. Yes. The gifts of the body of Christ who reached out and care and support.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah. I think the triplets taught me that. Mhmm. Not just to accept help, but to ask for it.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Well, I was just gonna say I think about for us, it has been more than a year now that I think about it. We've we've been a year and then some with Hannah. How many women in our church have come up and talked to me who've had breast cancer? Some of them, I had no idea that that was even a part of their life journey. Some of them had not hardly even let anybody know.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Others of them, it's been a long time ago. Mhmm. And I mean, it is it's a ministry. It's a it's an encouragement. It's a word about support.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Sometimes I'll even ask, so how did you, how how did you navigate this whole journey with the chemo? What was that like for you?
Katy Reed-Hodges:Mhmm.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And to listen to some of their stories and how encouraging it is. That's the thing. If you're rebuilding, you got a church that wants to help you, and we wanna help you. Yeah. You know?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:But you gotta you gotta you gotta resolve. You know, when I told that story about this man who was in my church in Oklahoma, I had everybody's different. You can't I know that it may have sounded too simplistic. It it was it's not been simplistic for him. It really wasn't.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I may have minimized his journey. But the bottom line was he just woke up one day on the side of the road and said to himself, I'm not going to live like this anymore. Mhmm.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I'm
Dr.Dennis Wiles:not gonna stay in my ruin because he he was ruining his life. He was ruining his marriage. Mhmm. He was ruining pretty much his relationships. You know, people didn't trust him anymore.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And he just finally said, okay. I'm not gonna live like this anymore. And I'm gonna get some help, you know, and I'm gonna find a I'm gonna find another way to live, which he did to to his credit and to the Lord's grace in his life. Yeah. There was something about that gumption.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And that's why I tried to say that same morning. At some point, there's gotta be resolved that emerges in this. Okay. We are going to do this.
Katy Reed-Hodges:That's good. And there's humility. Those are those are linked together. Right?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:They are. Because it it's
Katy Reed-Hodges:I think Luke's right about
Dr.Dennis Wiles:that. A humble admission.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Isn't it? Mhmm.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You know, that what you're doing is not working sometimes. Yeah. Now sometimes things just happen to you. Like I said, miss O'Leary's cow kicks over a lantern, you know, and all of a sudden I gotta rebuild my life.
Luke Stehr:And poor miss O'Leary who had to live with the life. Exactly. Right. And, it's a different kind of rebuilding. That's right.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah. Some things are brought upon you. Some things you bring yourself. Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So now I've gotta figure out, okay, how do I draw this plan? And, and and you know good and well, it's not gonna be an easy road. This it's an rebuilding is an uneven path.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I wanna ask about that too if we have time.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:There's just gonna be setbacks.
Katy Reed-Hodges:We got time. You know? There's gonna be setbacks. And when you talk about setbacks, I think because
Luke Stehr:I actually don't have time. I
Katy Reed-Hodges:just looked
Luke Stehr:at the clock.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Oh, you
Luke Stehr:You've got a meeting.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Hey, DW. You got an appointment.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It's okay. We gotta come back.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Then I've got a I'm gonna lob a quick question. When you talk about setbacks, I think that is okay. You've you've I am here. I need help. I'm humble.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I'm gonna rebuild. And then, like, 2 weeks later, this is too hard. I've hit a wall.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:I'm back in the pit. Yeah. Never mind. Alright. Yeah.
Katy Reed-Hodges:What Yeah. How do you I mean, what then?
Luke Stehr:The only way out is through y'all.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Say it one more time.
Luke Stehr:The only way out is through. Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You get to get to stay with it.
Luke Stehr:Yeah. I am one of those sick, twisted people who enjoys running marathons and people will talk about there's the wall. When you run a marathon, it hits somewhere around mile 20 and your body's tired. There's 6.2 miles. And that 0.2 really counts 6.2 miles left after you hit the wall typically.
Luke Stehr:And I've done it twice. I'm going to do it again in 2025, but it's, you have to tell yourself when things get hard, that really the only way out of this is through it. And you've just got to keep moving forward. But the good news is unlike a marathon in the context of your life, in the context of a church, that's not something you do alone. And that's where these people who've gone through it before are there to say, I'm on the other side.
Luke Stehr:Where you have a wound, I have a scar that's that's healed And you you can make it Mhmm. Through, and I'm here to do it with you,
Dr.Dennis Wiles:which is which is awesome. I I would say it it it's a little, academic and how I am walking us through the journey. In other words, it sounds like, okay. Here are the steps. 1st of all, you pray, then you assess, then you plan.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Well, actually, you're kinda doing all that together.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It's not actually a, a linear path.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:It's not. I mean, you're assessing and planning, and then you're having to reassess and going, man, I'm still here. Okay. I've I've gotta figure out. This didn't work.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So I'm I'm just because this part of the plan has not taken the path I wanted to, I can't quit. I've gotta reassess and then keep rebuilding. It's good. It's it's all connected. And and that's where that that's why the gumption is important.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You know, the resolve is so important.
Luke Stehr:Mhmm.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That, okay, this is not necessarily working. It's it's it's, it's I know for me personally, I've been through some challenging seasons in my life. There's one in particular to where I I experienced several setbacks, and some of it was caused because my own doing. I would get ahead of things, and what I'm gonna go ahead and do what I'm gonna do this right here too. When I knew I wasn't quite ready, I had a sense that it wasn't quite ready, but I still did anyway because of my nature.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:That's just how I'm wired. So the Lord had to teach me that I have to continue to seek his counsel, his wisdom, and, and I watched a few setbacks and then but but what's awesome is is when you recover from one of those setbacks, that probably creates more momentum than anything else. You know? If you're trying to rebuild and you have a setback, and then all of a sudden you get started again
Katy Reed-Hodges:Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Man, it feels like you're going downhill for a little while.
Katy Reed-Hodges:There's a resiliency. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:And so you just can't you can't give up, you know. And, and I believe God is a part of that. You know, Zerubbabel now quit for 16 years, but the Bible says hezek I mean, Zechariah and Haggai kept preaching, kept encouraging. Now Haggai's a little forceful, you know, saying things like, we sure are living in a nice house. How about God's house?
Dr.Dennis Wiles:You know, have you noticed it lately? Hey.
Katy Reed-Hodges:It's a motivator.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Yeah. So he's a little more little more direct. You know, Zechariah was a big picture, the day of the Lord is coming. And, but still, they both were there encouraging. And so stay connected to community when you have a setback.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:I think that's really it's really important to be connected to your resources when when the setbacks come so that you don't get demoralized in them, you know. So you don't not only you don't wanna you you don't wanna remain in your ruin, you don't wanna be overwhelmed by your setbacks.
Katy Reed-Hodges:That's good.
Luke Stehr:You know? Yeah.
Dr.Dennis Wiles:So
Katy Reed-Hodges:Good. Well, I'd say that's a great place to put a pin in it. And we'll be back next week to continue on this what are we calling
Dr.Dennis Wiles:it? Building for
Katy Reed-Hodges:the future. Building for the future. Thank you. Together to the future
Dr.Dennis Wiles:Together. Series.
Katy Reed-Hodges:K. I appreciate y'all, and we'll see you next week. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the Tell Me More podcast today. You can subscribe to this podcast on your app of choice, or you can visit us at fbca.org to find out more information about the podcast and our church.
Katy Reed-Hodges:Thanks for listening. Have a good day.
