Welcome to another episode of Tell Me More. Today, Katie and I are with not Dr. Wiles, who's in Rome. We have Bud Houston, who we're gonna get a little info on here in a minute because not many of you may know him. He's been around our church for a few years. But before we really dig in, we thought we would start kind of with we're sponsored by First Baptist Darlington.

We are still top of the hour. Let's just, let's just kick it off the hill. We're sponsored by first Ever Church Arlington. And there is a lot going on and so we do want people to just, I feel like we're still kind of shaking the ice storm off, getting back in a rhythm. So if you're listening somewhat live this week, like the women's tea party is this weekend.

The men have a retreat in a few weeks, February 21st. Thank you. Faith at Home weekend, which is the next weekend. Anyone with kids in the home, that's the next weekend. So these are all going to come really quickly and we want you to stop what you're doing right now, go to fbc.org and register for those events.

Yep. And then one event you don't have to register for but is a really important one in our church's life is Ash Wednesday. That's in two weeks. So we'll interrupt our kind of regular midweek program perspective, which we want you midweek too. Yeah, midweek is still happening.

You should come. But we'll interrupt kind of our regular rhythm with an ash Wednesday service, 6pm Perspectives and care groups will keep going, but everything else, it's going to pause Wednesday in the sanctuary and there'll be, there'll be worship care for like the, the normal Sunday morning equivalent. So that kind of three and under crew. Yeah. Really meaningful Ash Wednesday.

It's a beautiful service. If you've never been to it, highly recommend it. Even if you've got kids. I've found a lot of meaning and bringing my kids to Ash Wednesday, that's good to hear. So it's a great service.

And then the other thing that's coming up is if you've been around the past couple of years, we do a big kind of evangelistic push around Ramadan. And so we'll start doing our Ramadan gift bag distribution in a couple of Sundays. So pay attention to that. And that actually is our lead in for Bud, who's here with us today. And so Ramadan starts in two weeks.

It's coming up. It's I think the 17th, so the day before Ash Wednesday. So we have brought Bud Houston into the studio. Yeah. So Bud, who are you?

Let's start there. Yeah. So welcome one. Thank you. Yes.

Not. Not in Rome. So it makes it easy to podcast with you. Not. Not in Rome.

Have you been to Rome? I have have been to Rome. Okay. You're a well traveled man. I do get to travel.

So I've been around the DFW area for I guess about five years now. Since moved here. Really? During the middle of COVID To reach unreached people groups. Yeah.

And here to reach unreached people groups. That's right. So you were with Global Gates. Correct. Which many in our.

In our church know about Global Gates. So you came to DFW with Global Gates. With Global Gates. So Global Gates didn't have any teams or workers here. So just help start the team here and catalyze that work and learned a lot.

Thought I was going to be moving overseas, but family said well, it's not the best fit in this season. And so, you know, when God calls you to something, it doesn't necessarily mean a location. It's more of a vocation and so making disciples. Pause that. Hear it again.

Very good. That's a good line. Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm really good with one liners. Oh, well then I.

My friends call those Buddhisms. Okay. I look forward to hearing how many buddisms we can fit in in this. I did cool stories. My background is automotive technology, so didn't grow up in the church, you know, really.

My parents were probably agnostic, so I came to faith at age 26 and so radically transformed my life and said if this is true, this changes everything. But before getting into ministry, I was in the automotive field and so I was a technician and I taught at a college automotive. I still do that some now. But one of the reasons I moved to DFW in the first place was I was actually still working, not in full time ministry. And they relocated me to Dallas.

So all that to say the automotive world. Automotive world. So that. That was. Yeah.

So we lived here for two years before. So I ran a training center in Dallas and Houston. So I would drive, drive back and forth and. Are you a car guy? I am kind.

Kind of a car guy. Do you. Okay, pause. What kind of car do you currently drive? A Volvo.

Practical. Yes. What kind of car do you like? Dream car. Dream.

Dream car. It can be unrealistic. Un. Unrealistic. So, um, it's a great question, but it's.

I'm, like, a decade removed from actually thinking about that because I have seven kids. Okay. So there's the other piece. Bud does have seven kids. Okay.

But ten years ago. What? Ten years ago. Is it like a sports car? Like.

Like. No, older. Older car. So this sounds really weird. So I just like the idea, as you mentioned, functionality cars that look kind of weird but are really, really fast.

Such as? Such as, like, take a Chevy Vega from, like, 1975. You know, it's like the Chevrolet Pinto equivalent and saying, like, how fast could we make this? Zach's back here recording. He's into it, and it's like.

It's like, oh, it's. It's a sleeper. And so, like, that's Maybe. Maybe that's some insight in my personality. We're psychoanalyzing this.

It's like, okay, yeah, you might not bet on them. How can you be conspicuous? But then just over deliver every time. That's awesome. I love it.

I love it. Thank you. Once again, before we hit record, we're like, but our people just want to know you. That's part of just the. Yeah.

The DNA of First Baptist. So. Sorry, I may ask other. I. I reserve permission to ask questions like that. Yeah.

But, yeah, you're talking about your journey. We want to hear about the kids, too. You have seven kids. Yeah. You are married.

I don't mean to derail the whole thing, but I think I did, so. No, that's good. Okay. Yeah. So we're expecting our seventh, and just, like a little over a month.

Exciting. How wonderful. So tell us about your kids. Can you. Is that okay?

Yeah, absolutely. So oldest cash, 17, and youth, Quinn, 15. So they. They love to play music. Cash plays in the orchestra, which is wonderful.

Any Eagle eye and church members will remember that they did the operatory prayer this summer. And if you're watching, if you're looking at us on camera, Bud and Cash, I think he resembles you quite a bit. So if you see a mini Bud in the orchestra, that's fresh. And then Quinn is a lovely young lady. She is.

She's. She's amazing. And then Carson is next. So girl, Carson. Spell it.

Not with S O, N, because that's so boyish. So you would put a Y in there. No E. Oh, okay. Yep. Again, a little subversive.

A little subversive. But you. If you're paying attention, you get there. Yeah. Okay, go on.

I. I don't. I joke sometimes. Like, I don't I don't want to rock babies. I would prefer rock the boat. Ooh.

Okay. There's another Buddhism, but ism. That's for me, if you're keeping a little. Yep. Hash Mark.

That's three on the chalkboard. Okay. Yep. So. And then.

Oh, I skipped canon. So he listens to this. You'll be very distraught. C A canon. You matter.

Yeah. C, A, N, N, O, N. Because he's a boy. Because he's a boy. Got it. I'm tricking.

That's right. And then Karis. Is it spelled like the Greek K, A, R, C. Yeah. Yep. And then Callan.

Oh, wait, I'm. I'm picking up on a pattern here. Yep. So why would you. Why would you spell Caris with a C?

Because she's part of the family. That's right. Well, Glenn is a Q. And then. But sound phonetically.

Yes. And so then we didn't want Quinn to feel left out, and so it was like, she can't be the only non. C. So Callan's with a K. Good. This is smart. Yeah.

Okay. Let's think about it. And so then the. The baby who's coming. Are you going to reveal the name?

Ought you? I totally can. I've seen something. There's no pressure. I've seen something embroidered, so.

Okay, well, that's up to you. We can bleep it later. There's this whole story about the name, which. Which may be for another day, but it's. Conrad, I want to hear the story, if we might.

Okay. So I love church history, and so I would say, like, my understanding of our stream of Baptistic thought is more Anabaptist than Reformed Baptist. I can see that. So, Conrad Grable, what does that mean to you for our listeners? I think Dr. Wiles would approve of that, that you're more of an Anabaptist than a reformed Baptist.

Can you just. Yeah. So whenever you think of just, like, Reformation, there's a couple streams that come out of Reformation. And so one of those would be, you know, Calvin in Zurich, and then Luther and then Anabaptism. So Anabaptism is just a stream out of the Reformation, sometimes called radical reformers.

I would say wrongly. Partially right. But maybe I just feel like that radical Reformation just. You're in a. But there were some key things that they ascribe to keenly being baptism of believers, where you had, you know, the church that Calvin was helping establish and Luther were still baptizing babies.

Not saying that's wrong, but I think our. Our Understanding would be slightly different. And so kind of that stream is Anabaptism. And then Anabaptists were persecuted by both the Catholics and the Protestant reformers, the magisterial reformers, as they get known. And so I just have that affinity of, like, if this was so important for them to be rooted in the scripture about the view of baptism, like, that's worth championing.

And so in Conrad Grable, there it is. Basically, the story of how this was birthed was three guys were being taught by Ulrich Zwingli how to read Greek using a Greek New Testament. And they just come under the conviction of, we're doing this wrong. I'm reading my Bible. And they say in its original language.

Yes, in Greek. And they said, what do we. What do you do? And he said, okay, I'll baptize myself and then I'll baptize you. And then you baptize him.

Yeah, yeah. So like, that's. So like, that's the Conrad Grable story. Love it where that comes from. And you thought that that's got a ring.

I've been trying to get this for years.

Finally was like, this might be the last one. I'm just gonna throw my chips in. And. And how was Jessica feeling about that? Yeah, she finally gave in.

Speaking. Jessica is. Yeah. Take a minute to just talk up your wife. She's a wonderful person.

Wonderful. I mean, we have seven kids, so we met in high school where.

Well, actually, let me take that back. We started dating in high school. We. We met much earlier than that. So I told her in eighth grade that we were.

I was going to marry. That you were going to marry her? Yeah. I wanted you to say it. I was going to fill in the sentence for you, but I didn't.

Yeah. And how did. How does one receive that in eighth grade? It's not. Well, receive.

Let's wait a couple years, though. And so, boys, if you're watching this, if you have a temptation to tell a woman that you're going to marry her, maybe just hold that in your heart for a few more years. Is that fair? I know it worked out, actually. You too could have this life.

Yeah, it worked out. So. But you, you have to be reserved with that, though. You, you, you throw that around too much and it just muddies the water. Yeah, you really get that.

You get labeled. A weird time you got. Yeah, there's no three strikes here. It's just. Yeah, you said it once and then you let it simmer.

Yep, that's right. And then you'll start Dating in high school. Started dating in high school. Okay. Yes.

Okay. What. What's Jessica like? She is. Give me some character qualities.

Oh, she's. She's very compassionate. She's loving. I. I say this in both the. Yeah.

I say in the best way and you could also, but very emotional. And I say that just, like, in compassion, showing, you know, being deeply affected by. By things in a good way. Yeah. That's wonderful.

Yeah. And outside looking in, she just seems like a stellar mom. Just committed to Yalls family, committed to your kids. She's really great. We home.

We homeschool our kids, so she's chief in that. And so, yeah, it was just her or nor I were homeschooled. And so Cash has always been homeschooled. And so it's never something. Growing up, I thought I grew up a pagan.

So it was like. Like, why would you. Why would you homeschool? This is. That's weird.

Yeah. But it's been. It's been great for our family. Was that her heart? She wanted to do that.

Well, it was. It was unique. It was. So cash is 17. So it was about the time of the Sandy Hook school shooting.

The conversation started. So I guess that was about 18 years ago or so. 19 years ago. Wow. Yeah.

Our culture. Our culture. Yeah, man. You start thinking about a different path for your family. Yeah, that's great.

And y', all. She's. And she's finding her way at First Baptist as well. And she was in a summer cluster that I led, so I got to know her a little bit more. Delightful person, by all accounts.

So. So if you see the Houstons around, say hi. Yeah. So. And then you're no longer with Global Gates.

You're with. I derailed that pretty quick. So let's get back on that train. Yes. You're with a group called the Joshua Project.

Yes. And so could you explain. Yeah. Even just explain, like, the transition. So with Global Gates, I was helping research who are the unreached people groups in North America.

And so that was really what Joshua Project does, but on a global scale. And so had basically researched all the metro cities in North America and felt like this was contributing to the global. To the body of Christ in North America, to, hey, who are our neighbors? How do we pray for them? How do we have spiritual conversations with them?

And how do we see churches planted among them? And the founder of Global Gates, one of the co founders, Chris Clayman, went on sabbatical, started interviewing other organizations about how do we do better on the back end as an organization administratively. And in that process learned that Joshua Project was in a season of transition. So Chris became the executive director. Chris is a great friend.

And so after, about a year after he left, just conversations led to. I felt like the Lord was asking me to contribute what I had done just on a global scale to help the global body of Christ. You know, see, you know, who, who those who don't have access to the gospel are. How, how can they be informed in prayer? And how can they mobilize resources and people to the peoples and places that, that have, you know, no church, no gospel presence and you know, very small likelihood if no one comes from the outside of encountering a Christian or the gospel.

And you do great work and how long have you been with them? A little over a year. And you're enjoying it? I, I am. So the role that I serve currently is director of people group data.

And so I, I keep the Lamb's Book of Life is what sometimes we joke because it's like, you know, like who are these people who, that don't have a representation yet before the throne? And that's, that's not at all reality. You know, our, our data is directional, not precision. It's like we need to have enough anthropological, ethnographic, demographic information to help the church do what the church needs to do. So that's, that's kind of the role I do.

So I steward and oversee people group data team, who's doing, doing research. And it's not just that, but it's. Lots of people make decisions on our information and it's not. I was going to say there's kind of a weight there. Right.

The data that you provide, mission agencies and organizations and the ways that they move around the world on a daily basis. Right. Because you hear pastors quote all the time about these unreached people groups or you know, they say 20 of whatever or in this country there's, you know, all this and you, you might think where are they getting that from? It sounds like reliably it might be from something like the Joshua Project. Yeah.

So it does matter because it can change the hearts of people. Right. It's just to give some insight of our user ship. We had Last year about 1.2 million unique viewer or unique users. So we have about a million page views a month, but unique users, about 1.2 million.

Not nothing. Many of them are non western. And so even this year we have a goal like all of our resources are in English. And so this year is going to be translated into Spanish. Portuguese.

And what other language is it? Yeah, ultimately, we're getting to 12 languages. It covers about 86% of the world. Wow. Yeah.

Which for those of you listening at home, that's a really strategic decision to translate into Spanish and Portuguese, because as of, I think this past year, the nation that sends the most missionaries globally is Brazil. And so getting this data in Portuguese is really essential for the mobilization of the global church. Korean's the other third language this. This year. So when you think of places like Nigeria, which is, you know, English, Anglophone, you know, they have 17, 000 missionaries sent out from Nigeria, Brazil, you know, tons as well.

Korea. They're. They're sending, not just receiving. I would. I would argue they don't need to receive.

Probably. Right. At least not people, sometimes resources. That's right. If we do it right.

That's what I've learned. Because as I've said on the engagement team, can representing the pastor's office, and sometimes pastor represents pastor office. But I've learned a lot about polycentric mission from Luke and Ashley. And it's this idea that it's not the west to the rest, but everyone to everywhere. I say that, right?

Yep. You nailed it. And when we think about that as somewhat privileged, majority, majority white church, we don't always need to just send our people, but we do still have we got a role to play, a meaningful role to play if we listen well and have the right posture and bring what. What the kingdom needs that we can only do. So, yeah, this is what I did.

I learned that. Does that sound okay? I mean, I'm. I'm very proud of. I'm apprenticing.

Yeah. In the missions world. So can I ask one more question before we jump into Ramadan? Do it. But you and your family have joined our church.

Can you tell me what brought y' all here or how you got here? How did God work to land y' all among us? Yeah, great question. So we had been in the DFW area a couple years before coming here, and we were just looking for a church that had a heart for missions. And so I was with Global Gates.

And so Cindy Wiles is on the board of Global Gates. And so that became a conversation where probably in early 2021, I met with Cindy, you know, just about mission stuff, not church stuff. And so we just made that connection. And it was like, well, you know, this probably makes sense. And, you know, we continue to stay because I feel like we have a contribution to make.

We have a unique perspective on the world. And you know, history. And so we didn't come just looking for a place to land, but a place to contribute. Love that. Take note.

It's good. Okay, well, I'm excited for your contribution today. So I've mentioned this. We're gearing up for Ramadan. Let's do it as a church.

So this is, I think, our third or fourth year of kind of a concerted effort to reach out to Muslim neighbors, friends and coworkers over the course of Ramadan. But bud, we may have people listening at home who don't really know what Ramadan is. So what's Ramadan? Yeah, So I guess first you have to answer the question, who observes Ramadan? Right.

So the people globally who would observe Ramadan are Muslims. And so then you have to say, well, what is a Muslim? Just in general, it's someone who's obviously not Christian, not Hindu. They are very much believe in one God and they believe in the prophets, they believe in the Torah and the angel Injil being the gospel. So like the books of Jesus, the books of Moses, the books of David, the Zabor, what they would call the Psalms or Proverbs, the best we can translate it.

So there are people of the book, but they have another book. So they would, they would follow the Quran. And out of the Quran comes the hadith, which is their tradition that's written down. And so it flows out of that stream that to be a Muslim is really kind of what they call the five pillars. And one of those pillars is to fast.

And so they do that through Ramadan. So Ramadan is a month of fasting where they fast from sun up to sundown. And typically there will be a pre dawn meal and then they basically have a party when the sun goes down. Right. An iftar where they break fast for the day.

And when I say they fast, no gum, no liquid, no food. You can't put anything in your body. Can't put anything in your body. And you can't smoke. If you can't smoke or a smoker, like nothing goes into your body.

Nothing. And so it's, it's the idea of can. But could you succinctly tell me where that came from? What's the evolution of this fast? You know, most of our fasting Jesus asks us to do or you know, we can find a place like kind of in the scriptures that point us to that.

So specifically in the Quran. And so even the month, I think. So like the, the Muslim calendar is a lunar calendar. It rotates a little bit, right. So it rotates.

So like from our calendar, it moves 11 days every year, but it's in the ninth. I think it's the ninth month of their calendar. And what they believe, why it's that month is that the month that the Quran was first revealed to their prophet, who is Muhammad. And so out of that, they're just continuing this tradition. And really in Ramadan, what they're seeking is hope.

And so this is where it really kind of establishes the church, the container and ambassador of the hope of the gospel. In a situation to just be in proximity with them to say, hey, we, we, you know, whatever it is, hey, we fast too. Hey, we want to acknowledge what you're doing. Hey, we're praying for you. We don't want to ignore it because, you know, Muslims make up about 5% of Arlington, you know, about 20,000.

Say that again. Yeah, some Muslims and. And there's some diversity in what it means to be a Muslim. So it's like saying that statement is like saying, yeah, you know, just pick a broad analogy where you're just blanketing of people that. I mean, there.

How many different types of Baptists are there in Arlington? And I want to be able to explain which type I am. Yes. Right. Which I imagine are our Muslim friends and neighbors.

That's right. Don't want you to blanket cast type them. Right. Right. So just think about saying the word Muslim there.

There's some core things that they would all agree to, and I would say at the minimum, the core four that they agree to, that is that Allah is one and Muhammad is his final messenger. If you can agree to that, you can be a Muslim and have all kinds of other crazy or, you know, non orthodox views. And so it's really good to think about not studying Islam in a sense of I want to know what my neighbor believes, but studying Islam to have a baseline to know how to ask good questions, to learn what my neighbor believes. Yeah, I'd be curious and be humble in that. Yeah, it's so good.

So, I mean, you've talked about there are 20,000 Muslims in Arlington, at least. I think the last time I tried to do a check, there are like five mosques in town, which would be where they practice worship. What kind of. That's a lot of different people groups that's made up in that. So can you kind of give us a breakdown of what that would look like?

Yeah, the. The majority of Muslims who live in Arlington would be. Be from the Middle East. And so whenever you define Middle east, that's typically you're thinking about Arabs, Kurds, and Berbers from a ethnicity perspective. So there's definitely Arabs from Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt.

But then also there's a pretty large contingency of Kurds, predominantly from Iraq. And so this is like, I just love Kurdish people. I love Kurdish food. There's. There's a couple Kurdish restaurants in Arlington.

Name them. I don't remember the name of them. So there's one actually, describe them so that the. There's one I ate at not long ago that's right across the street from the southeast TCC campus. Okay.

It was relatively new. Never been there before. I went maybe like a month or two ago. And how do I know they're Kurdish? Because this is the thing with Kurds is if you ask your neighbor where they're from and they say they're from Iraq, my next question, I would say is like, what part?

And then just learn a little bit of geography, because this is the point. This is how you endear yourself to their heart. Kurds have been marginalized by every people they live around. So Kurds are the largest people without a country. So after World War II, they were promised a country, but they didn't get it.

So they're in Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Turkey. So in Iraq, it's in the northern part of Iraq. And so the Arabs basically have persecuted them. And so many of the Kurds who live in our community came because of persecution from Saddam Hussein. Currently, today, Kurds are being persecuted in Syria through the new regime in Syria.

In Turkey, it's not been necessarily persecution in the sense of killing, but it's been assimilation, basically. Outlawing their language and their identity. Yeah, similar in Iran. So just acknowledging their Kurdishness endears them. So just asking, like, well, what part of Iraq are you from?

And there, you know. You know the geography. In the north, they're from Solomonia or, you know, someplace like that. And say, oh, or is it okay if I ask you, are you Kurdish? Oh, my goodness.

They will smile, light up every single time. Because it's like, how did you know? Right? This is me. This is my people.

Because they've basically been marginalized. And in the States, they're just assumed they're Arab. And who would even. I mean, I hate to stereotype, but some of us aren't as familiar or comfortable in conversation like that. So to even feel like they're being seen, known, someone actually has a posture of wanting to understand you and where you're from.

To me, in the little bubble I live in, that's a Gesture of hospitality that we don't see a lot. And I think that would even open some hearts. Right. Just to. You actually care about me enough to know, like, what part of my country I'm from.

Yeah. You know, and I think my favorite way, and this is what I've encouraged others before to kind of open those like, where are you from? Conversations. Because there's. There are plenty of Muslims in Arlington who, their families have been here long enough.

They were born here. That's right. So just got me thoughtful about that. You want to be thoughtful about that? We have, like, I mean, you think about how diverse our city is.

That's. It's not new. So we have people who may not look like they were born in Arlington, who very much were born in Arlington or dfw. So I like to ask, how long have you lived in Arlington? Because they may have lived here since they were born.

A lot of context, right? Yeah. And so that's a good way to open that up. And then if someone's like, I was born here. Yeah, great.

A good question, follow up. I've just really learned to ask it this way is where is your family originally from? Yeah. And so it's. You don't.

Yeah, it's, you know, it's this idea of like, there's a ton of 20 something year old Arabs and Kurds who were born here. And so just asking where you're from. And it's like sometimes you find somebody from New Jersey and they're like, what? I'm from New Jersey. Right.

Okay. And it could be seen as offensive to even think they're not from here and they don't belong as much as we do. Right. But there's, there's a, there's a way to tactfully respect their, like, they've not lost their identity. Right.

Like, they're very communal, they're very familial. So even if they're born here, they've not lost. I'm Palestinian, you know, it's like, it's very much. But to say you're not from around here or, you know, like. Right.

There's a way. There's a way. There's a way. Yeah. And if you do it in humble spirit, I've learned they're very.

They being anyone actually is pretty forgiving. If you ask the wrong questions, but you ask them with the, the posture of, I'm just trying to learn. There's a lot of grace on the other side of that too. We have a lot of fear of saying the wrong thing. That's what I'm trying to emphasize.

I think some of us that are more in our bubbles and generationally Texan, whatever that is, we just are afraid of saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, that we don't do anything. Yeah. A good, A good way that I've helped train people of thinking through this is like really hoping for a Buddhism right now. If you, if you ask questions, you're normally pretty safe. And so here you go, we'll just drop it is.

You gotta remember the F words. There it is. And can't wait. Yeah. So ask about family.

So like, where's your family originally from? Ask about their food. Right. Everyone loves talking about their family, their food, their friends. Like, okay, what do you, what do you do for fun?

You start thinking through these F words that you're just asking questions. It's not interrogation. So what you have to help people do is like, yeah, you're asking questions, but you're giving information. So it's like, well, you know, actually my family, I'm originally from Tennessee. And, you know, one of the things that we love to do in Tennessee is, you know, fill in the blanks.

Like, okay, what, what do you. What's your food? Yeah. Right. And so then it becomes a conversation and you're learning and you're just sharing about yourself and asking questions.

And so you're not, you're not inputting anything onto them that would be offensive. Not saying that you can't ask bad questions, but questions are typically pretty safe. Yeah. Once. Let me, let me.

I'm not done with my F word, so sorry. Oh, there's another one. Oh, there's many more F words. Family, friends, food. Fine.

Yep. So then thinking about this is how we start to get to deeper faith. I mean, is that word faith Comes one. Yeah. Future.

So ask future before faith. It's like, what, what, what do you envision your life being like in 10 years? Dreams, hopes and dreams. So. Because then that cuts deep to the heart.

Right? Does cut. Right. So it's like if they had kids, like, I just. You.

You would see how much these people love their family and they're for the good of their kids. I would. Every time I ask that. Well, not every time. So many times.

It's about the betterment of their kids. That, like, as a parent, I think that's very universal. But to hear that from someone who maybe you like. I don't know. Like, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. Yeah. Just hearing that, it's like, that's My. That's my. It's my hope.

That's my future. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And that breaks down barriers in our hearts too. Right.

Not just in the awkwardness of a conversation, but then you get to faith. Right. And that's, you know, I want to start there, I'm guessing, could be a little bit off putting. Yeah. You build it.

And so the way that I help people think about it is our. Our job is to be prepared to walk through the doors that God's prepared. Prepared. And so, like, be prepared to walk through the doors that God's prepared. That's right.

So as I go in the door, sometimes I need to give a little gentle nudge to the door, but if it's closed, I need to recognize, okay, yeah, this door is not opening. Yeah. So after faith, like, we even like, okay, like faith, blah, blah, blah. But really the crux is forgiveness, but going deep. So then the question becomes.

And like, this is not how much normal. How might you prop that up? I can think about asking about the other ones. How do you ask about forgiveness? Well, it's like.

So I would ask it like this. So, like, they've shared about their faith, like, oh, I'm Muslim. And then, you know, I'm like, oh, Mashallah. Which means the Lord did it. And they're like.

They're like, what? It's just like these little connector things endear. Sure. Very disarming. I would imagine.

Then it's just this very, very clear thing. It's like, you know what? I found that most religions really have a lot of similarities. We're all trying to please God and get our sins forgiven. Forgiven.

How are sins forgiven in Islam? Again, it's just a question. And at any point you're not pushing. So that way it feels. But like, when we think of the whole continuum, that's where I'm trying to get to.

Of them expressing how our sins forgiven. Because in reality, that's not the worldview of much of the Muslim world because they're more of an honor shame culture than a guilt innocence culture. And so it doesn't necessarily register in their mind as much as it does ours. Yeah, that's so helpful. And I think I mentioned this book last time we were together, but there's a book called Misreading Scripture through Western Eyes.

There's a great chapter in there just kind of help to bring out that topic of honor shame versus guilt innocence. And so. Yeah. Because our people might not know that much about it. Yeah.

Is there something. I mean, can you give us a two minute explainer. So in more Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh worlds where it's not power, fear, so there's basically three main worldviews. So honor, shame. It would be totally acceptable for someone in an honor shame culture to lie to any of us to preserve honor because the highest is not a moral law, but it's the community.

Yeah. So you think about like in Genesis, Abraham lies, basically says, oh, this is my sister, and he comes out on top and God blesses him because of it. Like it's not a morally wrong thing in the context of Genesis for Abraham to do that. That's honor shame at work. And so as you start to look through this, actually I just did a training on what we call the 3D Gospels.

Like how do you view the Gospel through these three dimensions? And there's really a fourth probably really emerging in our culture today. But even thinking about creation, fall, restoration, like what happened when Adam and Eve sin, what did they feel? Shame. Right.

It says that we were ashamed. And so like throughout the scripture, you just need like a little prompt to say, oh, it's okay to view the Gospel through this lens. Think of the story of the prodigal son. What, what is his restoration? It's to be honored, not forgiven.

It's to be honored. And so thinking through, okay, how do we first understand how we explain spiritual truths to people from this worldview, but also understand that there's a weight of the gospel, that if someone receives Christ from a Muslim background and then it's not done through a wise stewardship, it's going to bring shame on their family. And that is a huge barrier to the gospel, not just the theological implications, but it's a huge barrier for them to say, if I do this, I will bring shame on my family. Which is the highest. It's the highest.

Yeah, the worst thing you could do. And so frequently in other parts of the world where you see the Gospel spreading among people from this worldview, you're seeing whole families come to faith. It's, it's, it's people are embraced in proximity to Christians. It's at the table, and it's the word of God as the guide. And it's a family decision because that's how families make decisions in those worldviews.

And so from our perspective, no, it's an individual decision. And I'm not discounting from that, but in a communal context, it's not just an individual decision. Well, and then think about, you know, in the book of Acts, there are, you know, I think was just reading about Lydia in Acts 16. Her entire household gets baptized. So it's not just Lydia on her own making a rogue choice.

It's this communal choice to follow Jesus as a household. Yeah. Philippian jailer, same thing. Yeah. So honor, shame, culture.

What. You know, as you think about how you kind of start those decisions. Conversations, not decisions. Sorry. You know, we're going to have these gift bags that we use.

What would be the best kind of way to make use of that as an opportunity? How do you use that to kind of be prepared to walk through the doors? God prepares. Yeah. So first is just acknowledging, hey, there's Muslims in our neighborhood.

We want to acknowledge your fasting. We know you're going to be praying. We want to be praying alongside you. So if you're delivering a bag. So a couple things.

I don't know what's in the bags this year, but previously it. So we've got a mug and then we've give. We're going to provide a little kind of shopping list of things you can put into. Customize, like tea dates, chocolates, things like that. Yeah.

So I would. Maybe we can get some. Get some Bibles ordered, because we can do that. This. This is the thing about, you know, they're people of the book, so they believe the Torah, the Zabor, the Injil, Psalms, Gospel, Torah to be the word of God.

So this is one thing they will not do. If you give them, I would suggest a copy of a gospel, they will not throw it away. Okay. Because this is a holy book. This is one thing they put.

Put us to shame. Like, if they come into our church and saw a Bible on the floor, they would be against. How dare you? Right. So whenever you do this, it's like it's very, very special to gift them a copy of God's Word and then they actually may have no interest in reading it.

But I've heard multiple people's testimonies, and I've been in Muslims, they have Bibles on their shelves. So what happens? They have a dream or a vision. They just have this need that they're like, the Quran's not answering this. They pick up a Bible and they start reading it.

And so at nothing else, if we can get the word of God into the homes of Muslims and trusting that the word of God and the spirit of God is sufficient. And then what I become is what 2nd Corinthians 5 says is that I'm an ambassador with a message of reconciliation and a ministry of reconciliation. Not. Not pastors. I It says, you know, verse 17 is if.

If you are in Christ, you are a new creation. So every person in Christ has the message and the ministry of reconciliation. Amen. So then it becomes, how do I step into the lives in a very relational way? Not a program.

This seems like a program, but this is a catalyst to help it be relational. This isn't a program. Right. So there's a difference between, come to the church, we're going to do this for you, versus let us equip you to step into relationship with your Muslim neighbors, friends, coworkers, colleagues, acknowledge. Hey, we've never actually talked about our faith before.

I know you're Muslim because I see you pray. I should have asked you about this. Like, just confess. I should have done this a long time ago. But this is the key.

I'm a follower of Jesus. Yeah. And I like to use those words. And I've talked about this before just because. Just like we have sometimes a lot of connotations around the word Muslim because of what we may have seen in the news, they actually have a lot of connotations around the word Christian.

That's right. So isolation. So this is a problem in our culture today, not just with Muslims, but with everyone outside the church. Isolation breeds contempt. Meaning we're.

We're. We're just like. We don't know each other, so we assume the worst. So oftentimes when a Muslim hears Christian, they think, okay, you worship multiple gods. Santa Claus is one of them.

Yeah. You know, so it's like all of this weird stuff. A lot of baggage, a ton of baggage. So I'll tell you, I've had tons of conversations with Muslims, and one comes to mind, I was in the Irving Mall. I would go every week and share the gospel there and met this guy from West Africa, Muslim.

And I said, well, I'm a follower of Issa, which is the Arabic word for Jesus. And he says, I've never heard that before. Can you tell me more? Wide open door. Yes.

Yes, I can. Right now. It's just foreign. There was no connectivity between a Christian and this guy. I heard the name of Jesus in the Irving Mall.

In the Irving Mall. Right. And had lived here for 20 years. Yeah. No proximity, because it was proximity.

And so it's. It's stepping into proximity with intentionality and being surrendered to the holy spirit of saying. So, like, even giving practicals, like, I don't even want to do too much of that. What you can do is say, okay, here's a bag. I want to confess my ignorance I want to extend an olive leave and say, I'm praying for you.

I want to learn more. I'm serious about my faith. I think it's important for Muslims to recognize that you are serious about your faith because they see that as a value. Some Muslims who are more fanatical will just say, like, okay, all Christians are bad. That's not the majority.

Right? That's. That's not the majority. They do exist. So we don't want to overlook that, but step into it and say, oh, we have some similarities.

And they have a lot of stories in the Quran that point back to stories in the Bible. And what I say is, like, your stories have ellipses. Like, you don't actually know the full story because it's just referenced. So then I use those opportunities to tell stories from the scripture, like, oh, we're having dinner. This reminds me of a story Jesus told.

And you just tell the story. Jesus told the story. Because you're prepared. Because you're prepared. Walk through the doors.

That's right. Yeah, you said it better. I don't have any Kadyisms. Proximity, presence. But the door thing, the door.

Be prepared to go through the doors. God prepares. There it is. I couldn't get it. I may have misquoted you.

No, it is, I mean, like the scriptural, it says to be ready in season or out of season. Always be prepared to give an answer for the hope that is within you. But do it with gentleness and respect. But don't go kicking down doors. Yeah, gentleness and respect.

Yeah, that's good. And so whenever I think of levels of conversation, like, even specifically with. This is like we. We always start with a greeting and then we move in the small talk and the meaningful conversation before we should get to spiritual conversations. Right?

And I'm not saying good wisdom, even for non Muslims, by the way. And I'm not saying that God can't work through any other means. I've just found practically that greases the conversation for receptivity. Mechanic, little mechanic metaphor there. This is great.

I know. Where do you. I feel like we could talk all day. Oh, we could. Well, we don't have to put a hard and fast time limit.

So, you know, I'm asking both of you this. Like, Luke, it was your idea to have bud on here. What's the one takeaway you want for our church? Bud, you got. You got one chance to speak into the mic on Tell Me More.

What's the one thing you want our church to hear? So, Luke, you go first and Then maybe Bud, and then we'll go from there. Yeah. You know, if you are a member or just showing up to First Baptist Arlington, take a gift bag, pray over it, ask God to show you who he wants you to give it to, and just treat that as an exercise of prayer. And I, you know, my, my script line is, hey, I'm a follower of Jesus.

I know this is a spiritual time for you, know that I'm praying for you. I love the confessional aspect that Bud adds of like, sorry, we've never talked about this before. And I would encourage you to commit to praying for your Muslim friend, neighbor, co worker, person you meet in the grocery store over the course of Ramadan. I even was talking about this with Bud before we started recording. But Lent and Ramadan almost coincide perfectly this year.

So one thing, if you haven't decided what you're doing for Lent, you could follow the Ramadan fasting pattern. So put nothing in your body before between sunup and sundown. I'm not saying you have to do this, but then dedicate yourself to prayer for the Muslims in your life, for the Muslims in our community and around the world. And then there is a really important night in Ramadan called the Night of Power. I don't know what day it is this year.

It's weird because it changes about when you. When they see the moon and when they don't see the moon. There's some stuff about the moon in there, but basically it's the night they believe that Muhammad actually was given the Quran and they believe it's a night where they have special. There's a possibility for special spiritual insight or visitations from angels or Revelation. And so once we figure out when the Night of Power is, they actually don't always know when the Night of Power is because it's based on the moon.

Really commit to praying on that day that actually that God will reveal himself to Muslims and their dreams. And then as people at First Baptist, I think our people know, happens all the time. Happens all the time. It is a way that God is speaking to Muslims around the world. We have people that come to our church that are like, yeah, it happens how I came to faith.

Um, and then I would say the point of the gift bag is not for you to just give a nice present and feel good about yourself. It's for you to establish proximity and presence. Because if your Muslim neighbor, co worker, friend has a dream of Jesus, I want you to be a Christian in their life that they know they can go to to talk about Jesus with. So I'm. The point of this for me is to set you up to be that person in proximity when, Lord willing, they encounter Jesus in a vision or dream.

Yeah. Just to add to that, if you are fasting for Lent during Ramadan and your Muslim friend knows that you will very likely get invited to what they call the iftars when they break the fast. You get invited to an iftar. Go. Yes, please go.

The food will be amazing. Plan on being there a while, but it will be an amazing opportunity to. To see them in their community doing what they do. And I think it's just very disarming. Like, what do they do if they just celebrate and eat.

And they eat a lot because they fasted. All food and fellowship. That's right. Yeah. So I would say the thing that I would want to say is Jesus in multiple ways called us to make disciples.

And it's been an emphasis on the church talking about intentional disciple making. In Mark 3:14, Jesus called the 12 to Himself and said that he called them so they would be with him and so that he would send them. And so being a disciple is withness and sentness. Another Buddhism. Buddhism, good one.

Just read Mark 3:14. Yeah, it's a Jesus ism, actually. Jesus ism. I can't take credit for it, but I. I love Jesus. I love making disciples.

And so just a contribution that, that, you know, this is my church. I have a responsibility to help people make disciples. So if you need help thinking through these things, I want to be available. The thing that I think sometimes we miss is we can encourage people to do things, but until they've seen it done, it's really hard. And so we got to acknowledge what we're asking people to do is hard because you've never done it.

But seeing someone do it makes a world of difference. So you just take an example of a bicycle. If you've never seen someone ride a bicycle before and it's laying on the ground, like upside down or sideways, you know, not like with the kickstand, and we say, okay, yeah, go ride that bicycle. Where do you even start? Where do you start?

Right. And then you see someone do it once and you're like, oh, I can do that, I can do that. I can actually. It doesn't mean you don't wreck the first time you try, but it builds your confidence and then you get some competence and then people see you and then you're actually helping other people ride the bike. Yeah.

So if we can do that with disciple making, but Also just having spiritual conversations with Muslims. I think that's. That's key. So. But for you, I hear you saying, like, I want to help if our people are listening and they're like, but how do we get to know you more?

How do we. What if you came and talked to our Bible study group or something like that? Is that an offer being offered up? Yeah, love to do that. The other thing, I would be remiss if I didn't just promote a Joshua Project resource, but I think praying for Muslim peoples changes your heart.

And so one of the things that Joshua Project does is we offer prayer resources for, you know, 16,000 plus people groups around the world. And so it's every people group, but then we also have an app and an email that you can sign up for called Unreached of the Day. So you can be praying for an unreached people group with a global body of Christ. It's in 12 languages for the same people group every day. And you can sign up what days do you want it for?

But it's available every. Every day of the week. So that would be the other encouragement just to. If your heart's not ready to do these things we're asking, I encourage you to pray, begin with prayer. And the people would access that.

Google Joshua Project. Yeah. If you go to Joshua Project.net.net, that is the website, you'll find a tab somewhere that says resources or prayer. There's also a website unreached of the day.comUnreached of the Day. Or if you just Google Unreached the Day Joshua Project, you'll find your way.

It's also on the Apple Android. As an app. As an app, yeah. Okay. Okay.

This has just been full. Thank you. Really? Yeah. Thank you, thank you.

We're glad you're a part of our church and we're super glad that we were able to give this hour to you today and tell me more. So I think if all goes well and flights and all that, we'll have dub back next week. Yeah. You're just hoping flights go well. Please, Lord Jesus.

So thank you, Bud. We really appreciate your time. My pleasure. Yep. Okay, we have now we have to record an intro.

Yeah, she'll do it. You want me to do it? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Welcome to this week's episode of tell me more. Dr. Wiles is in Rome, but we get Bud Houston here, a church member from the Joshua Project, and we're talking about our Muslim neighbors, we're talking about Ramadan, and we're talking about how to love our Muslim neighbors during Ramadan. It's a really good episode, and we're super glad you're here.