Ep. 185 - Faithful Witness
Welcome to another episode of tell me more. We talk about many things today, including John the Baptist and our own faithful witness. We also point to a lot of things in the life of our church. So, stay tuned for that part about life in First Baptist Arlington. We're glad you're listening.
Speaker 1:Thanks.
Speaker 2:Okay, everybody. Well, it's time for another tell me more. We're back. We have doctor Wiles. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I am severely underdressed. If you're watching, you noticed. Once again. Are listening, you don't.
Speaker 1:Once again, you're between two suits.
Speaker 2:The alternative made this podcast.
Speaker 1:We have had a series of funerals, Monday funerals and Friday funerals and everything in between. Just honoring our people at First Time Charlington. So we had another kind of faithful long time church member, Nancy Stevens. This is today. That's great.
Speaker 2:Great lady.
Speaker 1:We'll have more on Wednesday and one on Friday this week. Those are will be at Wade Funeral Home, but we're we're trying to love our families
Speaker 3:We are.
Speaker 1:Through the through these
Speaker 2:It's very important.
Speaker 1:It is of utmost importance. But I joked with Donna Dare today. Donna and Sandra Shepherd, along with the McClungs, they shepherd the friendship department, which is that whole chapel hallway. And they they come to a lot of our funerals, Don and Sandra, and I I really respect and just Yep. A lot of
Speaker 3:Great people.
Speaker 1:Honor my heart for them. But we did you can joke in the midst of these things. We joked about maybe needing to buy more suits cause we just are suited up a lot lately, just trying to love and serve and honor these
Speaker 3:Care for
Speaker 1:our people. Yeah. So I'm grateful for the lay leaders that do care for our people so well. Mhmm. Just matters a lot, and they do
Speaker 2:it It does.
Speaker 1:They do it with a lot of love. Last year at the service of remembrance, we had 50 or 51 names that we read, which obviously maybe more than that. Anyway, it didn't matter. And so Don and Sandra, I think, had 25 of them in their department. And then just running up to the front.
Speaker 1:It just there's something beautiful in there about the way we care for our people.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And there's also something well, there's a lot of joy in life and there's can be joy and death. Mhmm. And I think sometimes with those saints, you get to feel both of
Speaker 2:those things. So, anyway. That's right. Amen.
Speaker 1:So, we are between two suits today. Luke is, or you could say we're sandwich. A
Speaker 3:Flannel sandwich. Flannel Flanking the flannel man. Flanking the flannel man.
Speaker 1:You wanna jump right in? You're finishing a series. Yeah. This was the last of a series. Well, it's designed I for enjoyed this series.
Speaker 1:Can we take a big picture of you? I enjoyed You did it kind of subversively, but walking through the these kind of pillars of the bible. Mhmm. You got to preach part of it. I did.
Speaker 1:I I got David.
Speaker 2:So we've had John the Baptist.
Speaker 3:He he was the last one.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We made it. We just jumped into the New Testament.
Speaker 3:Moses Moses. David, Abraham
Speaker 1:Abraham. Isaiah.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And just the whole The theology at the beginning, designed to flourish, and then the
Speaker 1:Right. That wasn't a person. The
Speaker 3:of life that God has us on, and then we looked at some of these intentional disciples. All Old Testament. John the Baptist kinda straddles. He's the most
Speaker 2:Old Testament New Testament person, I
Speaker 3:think, so. Very unique role.
Speaker 1:Wrote it down. You must have said it at Pastor's Bible Study that John the Baptist was a, like, had a Old Testament vibe with a New Testament theology or something like that. Mhmm. I thought it was a good you probably didn't use the word vibe. I feel like I probably introduced that to this, but I've Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I've made a personal commitment to not just attend pastor's bible study, but participate in pastor's bible study. Turns out. Turns out. It's pretty good. It's good for you.
Speaker 1:There's some good there's some good
Speaker 3:The content bible's really good.
Speaker 1:But I thought that was an an interesting way to look at John the Baptist.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Yeah. And it is. Yeah. He's he kinda straddles history, really.
Speaker 3:The the present evil age, the age to come, he lived at that intersection. That's where his ministry was. Cost him his life Mhmm. Obviously. But he is a memorable character.
Speaker 3:You know? And, I have a lot of respect for John the Baptist. But I'm a Baptist preacher, so who what Baptist preacher? What self respecting Baptist preacher does not like John the Baptist?
Speaker 2:Jamie and I both know? We did just due to events outside our control, neither of us, I think sat down Oh, do we Sunday.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna Or listened to much. I did only catch snippets of the sermon.
Speaker 2:But that is the snippet we caught. And I looked at Katie and I said, we're gonna have to talk about the fact that John the Baptist was not a Baptist.
Speaker 1:Was a one who baptized.
Speaker 2:John the Baptizer
Speaker 1:There it is.
Speaker 2:Is a is a good translation.
Speaker 1:Luke, why do you quibble with that? Why does it matter? We are baptist.org. We still it and it's still
Speaker 2:live. Don't
Speaker 1:think there's a John the Baptist one on there, but we can get it.
Speaker 2:There's a I'm And this isn't common necessarily in our tribe of Baptists, but there is a sect of Baptist theology that believes in something called the trail of blood Mhmm. Which means you can trace Baptists
Speaker 1:Very intense.
Speaker 2:Very specifically back in a direct line to John the Baptist basically through trail of martyrdom.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And so, they end up sort of
Speaker 1:Thus the trail of blood.
Speaker 2:Erroneously calling some people Baptists who were not, in fact Mhmm. Baptists.
Speaker 1:It's a bit anachronistic, wouldn't you think, to go before the sixteen hundreds and call people Baptists?
Speaker 3:Mhmm. It would be. It would just be incorrect historically, but
Speaker 1:Yeah. You'd take well
Speaker 3:yep. Well, the founder of Southwestern Seminary is a man named b h Carroll. He was the pastor of First Baptist Waco in the latter part of the nineteenth century, early part of the twentieth century. And he was a very powerful pivotal leader.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And historically, the Southern Baptist Convention had a seminary for all of its ministers to go and be trained, and it's in Louisville, Kentucky, and the name of it is the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. So hence, the name tells you.
Speaker 1:Can't forget the name It's kinda like the Ohio
Speaker 3:State University. The one. Mhmm. And so, b h Carroll, pastoring at First Waco, asked the convention to start a new seminary West of the Mississippi River because travel was so difficult in those days. And so, the convention was loath to do it, but he moved to Fort Worth and he actually started the seminary.
Speaker 3:And originally, it was a part of Texas Baptist life, and it was donated really to the Southern Baptist Convention. But b h Carroll was a scholar. He was a a powerful theologian, great preacher. He was a very interesting personally.
Speaker 1:Many are.
Speaker 3:He had been divorced and remarried and
Speaker 2:Not significant. Definitely
Speaker 3:not. Had women deacons in his church, the first Mako, cigar smoker. In fact, there's a very Kendall. A very famous Hall Of Portraits at Southwestern Seminary that has I haven't been there in a while, but
Speaker 1:A different podcast. But
Speaker 3:historically, when I was there, you had the Hall Of Presidents and there's a very famous painting.
Speaker 2:It's like the Rite of Disney World.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, there's each each president has a portrait that was painted. And b h Carroll's portrait is very famous because he's standing there and he has hand on the chair in the president's office and his you can't see this if you're not watching it, but has his his right forefinger and middle finger are open. Well, there's a cigar in in that finger, but they decided to paint over it because it was so controversial. So it looks really odd Oh.
Speaker 3:To see his Yeah. Hand on He's like you know he's holding something, but but it's but it's been painted over. Mhmm. Reason I'm saying all that is an incredible scholar, very visionary person, powerful theologian, and and built what at one time would become the largest seminary in the world. His brother is J M Carroll, and his brother
Speaker 1:The lesser. Carol the lesser.
Speaker 3:J M Carroll, and he is the one who wrote
Speaker 1:Just have some quips today. Yeah. Not me too.
Speaker 3:He wrote the pamphlet, The Trail of Blood.
Speaker 1:Oh. And so To be transparent, it is latter in the day, and we have a it's it's 4PM.
Speaker 2:We have we have
Speaker 1:all items that we
Speaker 2:consider blood on life today.
Speaker 1:It's just as why, and I apologize.
Speaker 3:But to Luke's point
Speaker 1:So he wrote
Speaker 3:So the trail about
Speaker 1:the m
Speaker 3:I have one in my office, and it has a little fold out, and it has these red dots that symbolize blood, martyrdom, and trying the the the JM Carroll's theory was he tried to document, what some people, you know, refer to Jesus and the and John the Baptist, Jerusalem, Jesus, and John the Baptist, the triple j's, if you will. That you can trace Baptists through a a line of of martyrdom all the way back to John the Baptist so that the theory was that Baptists are not Protestants. That Baptists have always existed outside of the Roman Catholic church and the Greek Orthodox church Mhmm. You know, for about fifteen hundred years or so.
Speaker 1:And what was his point in doing that? What what point was he trying to make?
Speaker 2:Just as more legitimate The anti Catholic sentiment was really strong at the time.
Speaker 1:Take it out of that thread and just say, now we're really our own.
Speaker 3:Yes. But also anti church of Christ. It was a reaction to both Catholicism and the the church of Christ movement, and the idea being that the Baptist church is the only true church. And so, the church And can take it out
Speaker 1:of those threads That's has more legitimacy all the way back.
Speaker 3:So, the church I was reared in, Birmingham, we had a legendary pastor who was doctor Tully. Great man of God. He was dead before I was ever born, but he was hugely influential in our church. My my dad, he was the theologian that helped shape my dad. My my dad was a a really astute theologian.
Speaker 3:Didn't have He only only went to the sixth grade, but he was he was very much a student of the scripture. Loved brother Tully. And brother Tully, JM Carroll's book was a little pamphlet. Just a it was, you know, just a very small publication widely distributed across the South though. I mean, I I can't even y'all are so young, you you you can't imagine what that was like, but it was every Baptist that you can think of across the South had Was familiar with this argument and many of the pastors had this pamphlet and used it, including the church I grew up in.
Speaker 3:Our pastor did. And we had the additional pamphlets that I also have in my office that brother Tully wrote. And they are about baptism. And one of his pamphlets is Baptists are the only true church. And it cites JM Carroll.
Speaker 3:The only problem with JM Carroll's work is that it doesn't have any footnotes. It has no corroborating evidence. There's
Speaker 2:no historical evidence.
Speaker 3:Right. Because you example, he he traces us through the montanist movement in the early ancient Christianity. No self respecting conservative Baptist today would associate themselves with the montanists. But nevertheless, but they were they did suffer. Go to Wikipedia that later.
Speaker 3:Right. So but anyway, so so yeah, when you talk about John the Baptist, when I was growing up, John the Baptist was somewhat of our hero because
Speaker 2:He was the Baptist?
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's that we could trace our lineage all the way back to John the Baptist. Literally trace it in succession, if you will.
Speaker 1:And did that just fade a little bit, or was there a big controversy that discredited it?
Speaker 3:Well, I think that what's happened over time is that there's no to my knowledge, there's no reputable seminary where you have professors of Baptist history who would, teach that
Speaker 1:theory. It
Speaker 3:was very common
Speaker 1:Yeah. Sounds like
Speaker 2:To you about what was going on socially probably when Jane Carroll wrote that. I mean, the Catholic church would have formalized the doctrine of papal infallibility just a few years prior. Would have had the councils that really like borderline deified Mary happening at the late nineteenth century, early twentieth century. So the the Roman Catholic church was itself going through like a a shift at that point in history. So you had Protestant denominations, especially Baptists reacting pretty strongly against really strong Catholic formulations of theology that were happening around And the same
Speaker 3:a lot of You're
Speaker 2:the historian. That's my guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah. A lot of persecution that happened. And so, you know, Baptists, I guess I'd probably say had a little bit of a chip on the shoulder. And and not only that, you then you have the whole, Church of Christ movement that made its way across the Deep South in particular. And and a lot of From our perspective, the way the story would be told, a lot of our churches were stolen, you know, by because Alexander Campbell was actually a Baptist preacher at one time and then changed his views, his his ecclesiology primarily.
Speaker 3:And so, you know, his idea was the church of Christ was the only church. Well, the Baptist response to that was for many folks, well, no, actually, the Baptists are the only true church. And so so anyway, but Yeah, so when I was leaving to go to seminary, I think I've told you all this, we had In those days, we had a ministry. We women's missionary union in our church, WMU, and then we had the brotherhood, were called, that was the men's version, if you will, of of WMU, so to speak. And we were having a meeting at church where I was going to be I was I was they were blessing me, praying for me.
Speaker 3:And my uncle brought me up to the front of the brotherhood and gave me the copy that I have today of the trail of blood and gave me brother Tully's pamphlets and gave them to me in a little packet. Just said, you've been taught everything you need to know. Don't let the seminary teach you anything. These are the things that this church believes in. Well, you know, I was young and naive and I was like, oh, okay, good.
Speaker 3:So I showed up at Southwestern Seminary not really knowing, never heard of Thomas Helwitz, never heard of John Smith, I knew nothing about particular Baptists or regular Baptists or separate Baptists or General Baptists. Knew nothing about any of that. And so once I began studying, you know, on my own and researching, well, I came to a very different view. There's still there's still two predominant views, prevailing views in the scholarly world about the origin of Baptists, what what stimulates the origin of Baptists. Some some folks see us as kin to the Anabaptists, a n a, Anabaptists, the rebaptizers.
Speaker 3:And there are some who strictly hold to just a a purely British separatist movement as in terms of our origin, if you will, for Baptists. I'm I'm Yeah. Where do you lie? I would be in the anabaptist camp because when, you know, when the when the Anglican church It's a long story, the Anglican church, there were those who were trying to figure out how do you manage your way through It it was a very interesting time in history because king Henry the eighth had declared his separation from Roman Catholic church. You know all that history, king Charles the fifth, the Spanish king had sacked Rome in 1527.
Speaker 3:His troops had. A lot of Lutherans were in his were in his group of of soldiers and he was a little bit embarrassed by it, but the pope owed him a bunch of money and so they held the pope hostage there in in Castle San Angelo for a while till he finally paid off his debts to King Charles. Kinda in fact, that particular incident changes European history because the it's just the pope's never gonna have that much power ever again after that because an actual royal army has attacked and basically imprisoned the pope. But King Charles then starts to have a lot of sway over the pope and well, King Charles' aunt was married to King Henry the eighth.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so, when king Henry the eighth, his wife was Catherine of Aragon, he wants to divorce her and Mary Anne Boleyn, king Charles, told the pope, well, you can't annul that marriage. You're not gonna annul my aunt's marriage, you know. She's And so the king kind of exerted a little authority over the pope, so the pope refused Henry's request. Well, by that time the reformation already started, so Henry realized, well, the church of Germany separated, so we'll just separate. So, it caused some consternation to the theologians because the way it was established was what was called the act of supremacy.
Speaker 3:The ruling monarch is now the head of the church. So, over time, the theologians struggled with how do we manage a church that Yeah. John Smith's writings.
Speaker 2:If you ever go back and find them where Thomas always famously, you know, when you die, who will you stand before?
Speaker 1:The king
Speaker 3:and England. That's right. And so, it was a struggle for them. Well, so some of the of the folks in England said, well, let's just purify it. We can do that.
Speaker 3:We can stay in the church and purify it. There were others who said, we need to separate. It's just too it's too We can't we just can't have this kind of church. Well, Smith and Hellwitz were pastors and they decided to separate from the Anglican church Which was legal. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, they moved to Amsterdam because they were gonna be persecuted. Mhmm. But when they got to Amsterdam, they ran into a group of Mennonites, Anabaptists, and they challenged them on their views of baptism primarily in church church constitution. So, Helwiss and Smith disbanded their church and decided believers baptism was actually proper.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:The proper mode, new testament baptism. Mhmm. But there was no one to baptize them. Mhmm. Because there weren't They did they did not wanna submit themselves to the Mennonites because they were not Mennonites.
Speaker 3:So, John Smith just baptized himself. It's a very famous thing called sea baptism.
Speaker 1:In Two weeks ago, we had but he's sitting here. Mhmm. And he's naming his seventh kid Conrad after Conrad Grable. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Yeah. He was a very famous Anabaptist. A rebaptizer. Yes. Or
Speaker 1:not a non rebaptizer.
Speaker 3:He was the original Yeah. Original group of men in Switzerland. They met at Felix Mans' house January 24 in 1525. And had this very famous meeting where they decided we need to we need to baptize believers. So George Blowrock asked Conrad Grebel to baptize him.
Speaker 3:So Conrad Grebel, who had never been baptized as a believer, baptized Blowrock. Right. And then Blowrock baptized everybody else and kinda launched that movement.
Speaker 1:Well, Jessica has allowed Yeah. Bud.
Speaker 3:He's one of my heroes, seventh
Speaker 2:King Conrad. Smith's coming.
Speaker 1:Conrad Houston's coming, and he's named after that very Conrad.
Speaker 3:I'm I'm an Anabaptist at heart. So so what I was gonna say
Speaker 1:That is is so He admitted that on our podcast.
Speaker 3:But when Smith and Helwis disbanded church and decided to reconstitute, John Smith just baptized himself as a pastor. So then he baptized Hellas and then they baptized the group and then they reconstituted their church. Then Smith and Hellas parted ways and Hellas said that that King James, surely, he's an educated man. He understands times have changed. He will be glad for these Britishers to come back home.
Speaker 3:So 1612, Thomas Helwitz moves that congregation back to England to Spitalfield and launches the very first Baptist church we know of in history, 1612, in England. He made the crucial mistake, I guess you could say. He had written a little book called The Mystery of Iniquity and it's it's the first plea for religious liberty ever written in the English language. And he decided to send it to King James. That King James, you know, the
Speaker 1:The
Speaker 3:The King James.
Speaker 1:King James.
Speaker 3:And and he wrote a note to the king and the fly leaf. And it just said, king, you know that you have earthly power. We acknowledge that. I'm I'm paraphrasing. He said, but you know.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know you don't have spiritual power, obviously. You you you can't control Don't like
Speaker 2:to be told that.
Speaker 3:No. You can't control
Speaker 1:I'm making a facial expression.
Speaker 3:Control people. I mean, whether they Kinda
Speaker 1:like a yikes. Yeah.
Speaker 3:He he said something like, be they Turks or Christians doesn't love truth. Or Jews. Yeah. He just said, obviously, you know, you don't you can't control that. Not not men's minds, you know, and we have freedom.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And how do we think that
Speaker 3:was the key? So King James threw him in the prison at New Castle. There it is. And that's where he died. And I used to poke fun at some of my brothers and sisters who are King James only people because the King James after He killed the very first Baptist preacher.
Speaker 3:So But nevertheless, just fun little fact.
Speaker 1:Can't make it
Speaker 3:up. That's true.
Speaker 1:Can't make it up.
Speaker 2:And then they go to Providence.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So then you have you have another group of separatists in England who start coming with a similar conviction and decide they need to reconstitute themselves and they do that. They're two different groups of people, a little more Calvinistic they were. And so, you have these two strings of Baptists in the sixteen hundreds that emerge in England and that's really where we come from. And then eventually, they'll cross the ocean, and and for whatever reason, when you get to America, I think there's a lot of There's been a lot of research into why this would happen, but just that because when this group of people finally made it to America, Baptists were still a very small
Speaker 2:They lived in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Just small, really. And the colonies here were not Baptists. They weren't even friendly to Baptists. Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you
Speaker 2:were to go to an American Baptist meeting in Massachusetts, they would remind you that they were once a persecuted
Speaker 3:religious They were. Couldn't do weddings. Preachers were put in jail. I mean, all that. But for whatever reason, the individualist mindset I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Pick pick a theory of why the Baptist view, once it got planted in the soil in America, it's become the largest denomination in America. So it's somewhat of a fascinating story, really.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:It just seemed to fit the, what would you say, spirit of the day, the independent thinking, the desire for freedom, competency of the soul. Right.
Speaker 2:Well, and part of it's they were the first wave. Baptists and Methodists were really the ones who were most eager to go and view the kind of frontier as mission field.
Speaker 3:And so they were heavily evangelistic.
Speaker 2:The first American church planting waves, as we would think of church planting, are Baptist and Methodist waves that mostly spread from Rhode Island down into Appalachia and down into the American South. And then the North is Lutheran because it's where Germans and Well, they all showed up, yeah.
Speaker 1:It does make sense, though, that it would take root being anti hierarchy Right. Very
Speaker 3:Separation of church
Speaker 1:Separation state. Over emphasis on individualism. That all would make sense in that era
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:To flourish.
Speaker 3:And it just you know? And so but really, I love John the Baptist. I said that Sunday morning. I believe we do. We owe him a great debt.
Speaker 3:He played a role that no one else has played in history. He baptized Jesus. So let's at least
Speaker 1:Start there.
Speaker 3:Let's just say, obviously He's
Speaker 2:a good model for Baptist.
Speaker 3:Man, yeah, he's something. Yep. However, our roots, our history really and truly is about 1612 in a little community known as Spitalfield outside of London. That's really what the First Baptist Church was, and so here we are today all these years later.
Speaker 1:Okay. With that, a small break from church history Mhmm. To remind everyone that we are sponsored by
Speaker 3:this This A present. This very
Speaker 2:A present church.
Speaker 3:Current. This Baptist Church.
Speaker 1:Church. First Baptist Church Arlington, and there is a lot going on
Speaker 3:around here.
Speaker 1:There's lot going on. There were five tables in
Speaker 3:the Yeah. I like the convention.
Speaker 1:The Hamill Center. Was like we're having a mini convention. You just went by all the merch or whatever, but it's all really good.
Speaker 2:That's the
Speaker 1:thing, and I wanna make sure we don't miss I don't want people to miss what's going on.
Speaker 3:So Yeah. Wednesday night?
Speaker 1:That's I mean, I'd start with Wednesday.
Speaker 2:What's Wednesday?
Speaker 1:It's it's not nothing. It's Ash Wednesday at first well, actually, all over the world. Right. It's Ash Wednesday.
Speaker 2:It is also Ash
Speaker 1:Wednesday is many people's favorite service that we do, and I would hate It's beautiful. For the listener to just not realize that Lent starts this week and Ash Wednesday is this week, and it's 6PM in the sanctuary. Will we will
Speaker 2:offer Where's it there?
Speaker 1:Like Sunday morning. It mirrors Sunday morning. That's kind breeze and under. And thank you. That's yes.
Speaker 1:And it's you don't have to register. Just show up. But do show up, and we do offer the imposition of ashes, which has proven to be very meaningful for our people. Very powerful. We comfortable with that, you don't have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it wouldn't be noticed, but it is don't miss it. And because it prepares us for Easter, and it helps us to just Mhmm. Hang close to Jesus in this season. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It's part of the life of our church, and we don't want you to miss it. So, that would be the first thing I would emphasize.
Speaker 2:We're in the middle of our Ramadan outreach, so if you didn't grab a blessing bag this Sunday, they'll be back next Sunday.
Speaker 1:Did they get one Wednesday?
Speaker 2:Will they be out? Be out on Wednesday,
Speaker 1:you can grab one. Nobody's manning the table.
Speaker 2:We won't have anyone manning the table if you have questions, but they will be there, and then we have a training next Wednesday, with Bud Houston,
Speaker 1:who's on
Speaker 2:the podcast. So 6PM in the chapel on how to share
Speaker 1:the gospel with Muslims. I mean, y'all listened to Bud, it's excellent.
Speaker 2:Worth your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. This Sunday afternoon at four, we have our, I was gonna say quarterly business conference, and it's the one where we present the budget to the church. So, if you are a church member that wants to be a part of that
Speaker 2:Should come.
Speaker 1:Come. Yeah. You really
Speaker 2:Child care for three and under.
Speaker 1:Yep. Again, same, which is great. So
Speaker 3:Won't be voting on the budget. You'll just do
Speaker 1:the presentation. Just presentation. Mhmm. Obviously, in a day and age where there is sometimes a lack of transparency by churches, this is well, it's per our bylaws, but it is a good healthy practice to be transparent with how we intend to spend the budget. Correct.
Speaker 1:And then we'll vote on it the following
Speaker 2:Sunday. This Saturday?
Speaker 1:Is the men's conference? Men's conference. Wow. Things are just marching forward.
Speaker 2:It's also the College of Ministry talent show fundraiser for their summer trips.
Speaker 1:So, if you're a man at First Baptist Arlington, you could be here all day and then come back in the evening.
Speaker 3:You could.
Speaker 1:If you're a female, just come in the evening.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:Come our college ministry. College ministry fundraiser in the student
Speaker 2:center? College show.
Speaker 1:Starts at seven, I believe. So that's exciting. That is So just in the next five days, say six days.
Speaker 2:But then Faith at Home is coming.
Speaker 1:That come up for air after the after that business conference. You say, oh, that was good. What's next? Well, the next weekend is Faith at Home, is for families that have anybody in the home. It's not just young families.
Speaker 1:I think that's a misperception.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yep. But it's really if you are kind of part of a household, which with at our church, I think it's like 40% of our church has kids at home.
Speaker 2:I think
Speaker 1:we saw that at the in the data. But, really good. It's called Mission Possible, so it's got a a missions evangelism emphasis, and they're working hard on it.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be great.
Speaker 1:It'll be good. I'll be there.
Speaker 2:I'll be there.
Speaker 3:I'll be there. I'm leading a seminar, so I'll be there.
Speaker 1:And by the logic in my brain, if you listen to Tell Me More, you have to at least be tolerant of the three of us. So if you know where all three of us are gonna be at one time, wouldn't you also want to be there? Bonus. Bonus. And I bet if you don't have kids in the home, you could still come to faith
Speaker 2:at We won't turn you away.
Speaker 1:No. Come to the sessions. I'm sure there's So something to let's faith at home, and then I don't know
Speaker 2:Encounter weekend just coming up on the heels of that.
Speaker 1:If you have youth
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And if you are a youth listening, encounter weekend, really good.
Speaker 3:And we've also launched our foundation, and this was just a reminder, this next Sunday we're going to talk about it again, that if you wanna give consideration to long term investment in the life and future of our church is through the Heart of Arnington Foundation. Yes. Where proceeds from what we earn from the foundation goes back into our budget each year. This is our first year to do it. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And we're grateful to the Lord. That's one of the things we will present when we share the ministry plan slash budget. We will show that this year, the foundation is making its first installment that just reduces the revenue that we need to Already. Meet our
Speaker 1:Can I I don't wanna spend too long on this, but I did have a good chat with Bill Wheat yesterday about the foundation, and I'm Ryan and I are in the, hopefully, like, first half of our maybe halfway, whatever? Mhmm. We are not yet planning in how people are gonna inherit our money. Right. Let's just call
Speaker 3:it that.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But I think that there's two, like, misconceptions maybe with this is that, one, that you have to be just, like, on the cusp of Mhmm. Retiring to the kingdom. To to think about the way these things are going, when really you could build them into just healthy practices now. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that you have to be a gazillionaire
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:To to think about giving something to your church. That's right. And actually, any gift
Speaker 3:Any gift. Is
Speaker 1:welcome and meaningful Mhmm. To do that.
Speaker 3:And appreciative.
Speaker 1:And it may be worth, Bill and I talked about just like what Ryan and I could even be thinking about right now, even hoping that we we won't, you know, money won't shift generations in our family for a long time, right, for, well, anywhere. But I think the and the last thing is it's not that complicated. Think people think it's very complicated.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 1:If you make that kind of commitment, you're gonna be tied up in these really complex legal or financial or tax implication conversations when really a conversation with Phyllis or one of the board members is is actually quite simple. Mhmm. And you can make a decision that's not all of your inheritance goes to the church. Right. But just everything that just thinking about how we leave First Baptist
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Better than we found it.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that's something that Ryan and I kinda walked So away from that that's my, like, millennial plug for this, because I think it could just be, like, the traditionals that like, these funerals we're having of these beautiful lives that are long lived, and you think, well, of course, they've thought about how their estate might be dispersed, but I think we can start thinking about that now. They aren't all gifts upon death, I think a lot of them are. But just to think about how this church that has meant so much to us has a legacy beyond us, and anyone can be a part of it.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:That was free. That's not anything anybody asked me to do. Wonderful. But I think it's valuable.
Speaker 2:Well
Speaker 1:done. Thank you very much. Shall we talk about the other part of the sermon?
Speaker 3:I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 1:Do you think I forgot? So beyond I mean, beyond the trail of blood, was there anything? It's just like the
Speaker 3:whole mission preach on that.
Speaker 1:It's just the whole mission of God.
Speaker 3:We never mentioned the trail of blood.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was loose.
Speaker 3:You just claimed that
Speaker 1:he was We a got nine minutes left on this thing, so it's your turn.
Speaker 3:You know? Well, really, the sermon was really
Speaker 1:The mission. Right?
Speaker 3:Was more about personal evangelism. Yeah. You know, John was a faithful witness. John John played a unique role in redemptive history.
Speaker 2:He's the
Speaker 3:forerunner of Christ. He gets asked, you know, the text from John that I read, he You know, here The thing that was making them uncomfortable with John, well, they were uncomfortable with the directness of his message, but also the fact that he was baptizing Jews. And that was just not something that was done in the first century, and they were puzzled by it. We have some evidence about of of the baptism of Gentiles who would be proselytes into Judaism. But in all honesty, that was that was not that wasn't even common either.
Speaker 3:It's it's not like the Jews were evangelizing the Gentiles of the ancient world. I'm not saying they disrespect for the Jews, I'm just saying they just One
Speaker 2:very pleasant Gentiles wanted to become Jewish. It just wasn't a Restrictive compared to the way they were living.
Speaker 3:So, do have evidence of it though. But what John was doing was, he was baptizing Jews. And so, this contingent of representatives from the Sanhedrin go to Perea, where John was. He was in what was another town, Bethany, not the Bethany, they're close to Jerusalem, but North. And they just said, so what what are what are you doing?
Speaker 3:Who who has authorized you to do this? Why are why are you So are you the are you Elijah? And he said, no. He said, said, are are you the Messiah? No.
Speaker 3:Are you the prophet? You know, there's that passage in Deuteronomy about the prophet that is to come. A lot of lot of Jewish theological reflection on who that was. Was it the Messiah? Was it someone else?
Speaker 3:Whatever. John said, no. I'm not the Messiah. I'm not the prophet. I'm not Elijah.
Speaker 3:And they said, well then, who are you? Why aren't you baptizing? What what is it that you're trying to accomplish? And so, he quotes from Isaiah, which of course, he's been instructed by his father, obviously. Because at his birth, his father receives this word from God.
Speaker 3:He's going to be the forerunner, if you will. He's gonna prepare the way of the Lord and so he says that. Well, these these pharisees and there there were these representatives, they knew the passage from Isaiah and so John says, well, I'm I'm here to prepare the way of the Lord. That's who I am. And he said, in fact, the one who is to come is already among you.
Speaker 3:And then he says, kind of so interesting thing in in in Jewish practice in the first century. He says, I'm not even worthy to untie sandals. And you know, if you know about the itinerant preachers, they usually had disciples that traveled with them and they would take care of the evangelist, the teacher if you will. Take care of his clothes, they took care of his books, they took care of his food, all that. Only slaves untied sandals though.
Speaker 3:In other words, like a disciple would never untie the sandal of the teacher. That was the slave's job. So, what John was saying was, not only am I not worthy to be his disciple, I'm not even worthy to be a slave. And he says, then when he gets here, I'm baptizing you all with water, he's gonna baptize with the Holy Spirit. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Well, was really confusing to them. So what is that supposed to mean? You know? So they return even more puzzled than when they arrived because they're just not quite sure who this guy is. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And then he goes on to say, Jesus is the chosen one. You know, in fact, he's the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. He saw the holy spirit descend upon him. He's gonna baptize with the holy spirit. So, he gives this very powerful testimony about Jesus.
Speaker 3:So, he plays a unique role. He even says, he has come after me, but he's actually before me. So, he gives testimony to the preeminence, really the the preexistent nature of the word of God. So, he's he's straddling history. And so, I tried to point that out Sunday morning that you know, we're not John the Baptist.
Speaker 3:Okay? This is a one It's like Pentecost. This is a one is a one time thing, but what can we learn though from John the Baptist? He was a faithful witness and so I just tried to say, well then that's our job to be faithful witnesses in our day. As a church, we're trying to do that.
Speaker 3:I pointed out Sunday morning, one of the things that we've done is we've joined the ascent movement. Mhmm. We wanna faithfully present the gospel to North
Speaker 1:America. The institutional. Yeah. Like what we can do as a church body.
Speaker 3:Exactly. And and we're sowing gospel seeds. That's our hope. We're going to do that. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:But personally, you know, what what is it you do? Yeah. And so, I just challenge the church to pray, to prepare and proclaim.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Those are the points that Mhmm. We know, pray for It depends, but I would say to me, I pray for myself. I pray for people in my sphere, guess you could call it that, network. Pray for people that I'm burdened about. And we shouldn't underestimate the power of prayer.
Speaker 3:We're not in the converting business. That's God does that. We're we're in the plant, we're farmers. Mhmm. You know, we we plant.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:But praying to me is is important. And then I talked about preparing that you need to be, I believe, if you're a Christian. You need to think about what you believe, why you believe it and how do you represent what you believe. Not just in how you live, but in what you say. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Do you have the little Sometimes it's a it's an introductory speech, it's an elevator speech, picks up whatever you wanna call it. Because obviously, gospel is this massive holistic thing. But you don't always have the time to do this, you gotta find ways to illustrate the gospel. And and then to me, we're all called to proclaim it, know, to just declare it. And I shared with the church, I kinda have three principles that I abide by for me personally when it comes to proclaiming.
Speaker 3:I think it I think it has to be indigenous to who you are.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:We're all very different people.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You know, John the Baptist method was you brew the vipers.
Speaker 1:Get it. He did lose his head.
Speaker 3:Right. So that's one way. That's a way. Okay. The axe is laid at the root of the tree.
Speaker 3:You know, so okay. That would be the direct method of evangelism. I'm not wired that way unless I have to be in a, you know, in in a more of a defensive posture, but you gotta I feel like proclaiming in your own life is It needs to be indigenous to who you are. Secondly, it needs to be faithful to the gospel. We're not just sharing our story per se.
Speaker 3:We're sharing our story as it's been impacted by the gospel. And then third, it needs to be spirit led that guides you into appropriateness. You know, there's a there's an appropriate way to do this. So, I try to embody those when it comes to proclaiming. So, just tell the church a story about how I've been trying to think through ways to If I had, you know, five minutes to talk to somebody and I had some individuals in particular that I have felt led to and I've been praying for the opportunity to talk to them, praying for God to give me the chance.
Speaker 3:I've been thinking about how I wanted to do it. And so used the In fact, and so God gave me the opportunity last week to do it. I had no idea it was gonna happen. I wasn't planning on it. I didn't think it was In fact, I was even in the presence of a couple of these folks, I thought, well, this is not gonna be the time to do it.
Speaker 3:And then all of a sudden, one of them just opened the door and I was like, You know, then this is this time. And I just I just used the illustration of how we one time, Cindy and I were in West Africa. It's been years ago, and we no longer were able to go to this particular place in West Africa because of the persecution, but the chief took us way out in an area where we'd never been before, Cindy had never been before. And we got out there and there were some farmers working, some men with their kids and the little kids were just started screaming and so the chief, we had a translator obviously, and the chief told us the children have never seen white people before, so they're they're scared. They think you're a ghost.
Speaker 3:So he he grabbed one of the dads and told him, bring your boy up here and little boy's screaming his head off, know. And so, just to touch my hand, you know, just to show him I'm not a ghost. This is a real person. So the little boy did, he touched me and then he just kinda took off running, you know. And so, I thought about that a lot through the years, but anyway, and so I just What I said was just imagine if that boy grows up to He's a teenager and somehow another by a miracle, he can speak English and I'm able to bring him here to America.
Speaker 3:And I get him here and I wanna make sure he kinda fits in and so I buy him a cell phone Mhmm. And tell him, you know, hey, you can have this. And so I see him, you know, a little while later and he tells me, man, thank you so much. What a great gift. He said this, Did you know there's a flashlight on this?
Speaker 3:And he said, I use it all the time, you know, because sometimes I'm up studying late in my room and I don't wanna wake everybody up, this is awesome. He said, you know, I'm an African, so I'm I get cold at night, we don't have air conditioner, but we leave the windows sometimes the wind blows some of my papers off my desk. I just put this right on top of it, it's a great paperweight, thank you so much. This is the most practical thing anybody's ever given me in America. And I go, dude, this is a telephone.
Speaker 3:It's a computer in your pocket. You can call call people on this. It has a map on it. It it it has everything and I kinda just talked about that. I said, so can you imagine if you live your whole life, this is what I said to these two guys in particular, said, you live your whole life as if this is all there.
Speaker 3:It just it's just you, it's it's you just living on this earth and you die and you'll stand before God and he's gonna say, so how'd how'd you do? Tell me what you did with this life I gave you and you're gonna go, man, it's a great flashlight. It is a really good paperweight. And I said, I feel like God's gonna look at you and go, you mean you mean you never figured out what it really So that's all you think this is? You you didn't You totally missed the very reason that I created you in the first place.
Speaker 3:I said, don't don't don't do that. Don't don't don't miss out on the very reason God made you. He didn't make you for you, you know? And so I just tried to say to the church, it's it's not rocket science, you know? And and there was no in that conversation I had, there was no lightning bolt, nobody, you know, knelt in front of me, but I know I put a dent.
Speaker 3:I say, put a dent because they asked me a couple more questions about purpose and meaning and I just tried to encourage them, don't don't don't miss this, you know. One of them is a teenager and and he just said, it's a pretty good I want to think about that. You know? Well, that's why I just encourage the church, you know, that was my way to You gotta figure it out. You're What what, you know, what are you going?
Speaker 3:How do you do it? In a way that's consistent with you. At least think about it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know? Because I had it ready. I've been thinking about it whenever I'm standing there, all of sudden I get this question from one of the two that I wanted to talk to, and he one of them said, so and I've just been really thinking lately. Have you Here's what he asked me. Have you you ever read any other books on religion besides the bible?
Speaker 3:And I said, well, yeah, actually, have. And he said, so so what is the purpose of it all anyway? And I went, okay. I've been waiting on this. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I guess this is it, you know? And they're both standing there and I just said, well, know, it's kinda interesting. Mhmm. I've been I've been wanting to tell you a story. And so I did what I just did.
Speaker 3:And so, I just wanna encourage our people, you've gotta figure out the way. So I didn't I didn't go into at that point because I don't think it was appropriate yet. It will be, but it wasn't yet to explain everything. This was just the entry point of getting them to think about, well, I don't don't wanna die and have totally missed it all. Well, of course, I don't want that.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. So well, I don't want that for you. I don't want that for anybody. Mhmm. So anyway You
Speaker 1:know, when Bud was here kinda reference back to him, he used the phrase be prepared to walk through the doors Walk
Speaker 2:through the doors that
Speaker 1:God Mhmm. Did I say that right? Think so. Okay.
Speaker 2:We can go back and listen. Righteous of a realm.
Speaker 1:I thought you used the word prayer twice, that's why I put them down. But that's the idea, like, it's God that's gonna open the door and he even kinda said, you kinda push on and realize it's not there. But you have prepared to walk through them if God opens them. And I think that's our work. That's what we can bring to this.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. We don't convert people. Oh, the spirit does that. But we can we we can know God well enough to represent him in the moment and be used by him, be in tune with him enough to be used by him. And and and I think there's a great challenge there and humility to it.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And it does start with prayer. Think we Yes. I think we will never see the fullness of actually how important prayer is. And I think if we did, we'd we'd do it a lot more.
Speaker 3:That's right. So, you know, I just wanna encourage our people. I would say right now, if you're listening, just and I said to the church, I'm not Billy Graham. You know, I'm not I'm not You know, some of these people that have mentored me, I mean, that's just not who I am. I'm not Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I think I don't talk that way. So it would be really odd for me all of a sudden to lapse into something that I'm not.
Speaker 1:And it's if you can tell when somebody's trying to
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Be somebody they're not. Just be genuine. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So learn how to talk about Jesus Yeah. In a way that's natural to
Speaker 3:you. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Ryan's doing beach reach, which is the spring break mission trip that a lot of college students go on. BSMs do it, and one's in Panama City and one's in South Padre, so Ryan's all the Texas people go to South Padre, and Ryan's doing beach reach training every Sunday afternoon until they lead up to it, and it's basically different methods of evangelism. Like, so that they can find something that works for them. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So last night was the three words is what they call it. Like, before Jesus, I was fill in the blank, and when I met Jesus, it was like this, and now my body's now my life is embodied by this, you know? So I was angry or insecure, and now I'm filled with joy, and now I have hope or whatever it is. Mhmm. But that's one way.
Speaker 1:It's more
Speaker 3:of a personal The
Speaker 1:three circles, the bridge illustration, you know, all those. They're going through all those so that can be prepared in the moment to not look unprepared. Know, which nobody wants that, and you get insecure about that.
Speaker 3:Well, you know what's interesting, I didn't say this any morning, but in that very time when I was walking with that chief, we're just walking and I had been praying about an opportunity to share with him. What I'd land I knew he was a farmer, so what I landed on was the story that Jesus told about the farmer that sows a seed. And then whether he stays up all night worrying about it, or whether he goes to bed, the seed is going to automatically grow. And so, we're just on our way to that area. He wanted to show us this area, and we're just walking and the translator's with us, and just out of the blue, quote unquote, the chief says to the translator, he says, so ask They call me Samba.
Speaker 3:Said, Samba, tell tell me one of the stories Jesus told. And so the translator said, okay, this this is it. This is your moment. The chief of this whole area is asking you to tell him a story that Jesus told. And I had been praying, I was kinda raised.
Speaker 3:Said, well, you know, interesting that you asked that. Yeah. I said, Jesus told a very interesting story about a farmer. And so he said that, and and the chief went, well, I'm a farmer. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And I said, know. So so I said to him, I said, you know, Jesus talked about a farmer who he planted the seed and the soil was prepared and all that and really and truly, it didn't it didn't matter if the farmer stayed up all night worrying or if he just went to bed. That seed, if it's healthy, it's going to grow. So the translator told him, and this chief said, and Jesus is right. I do it all the time.
Speaker 3:Know, I thought, okay, here we go. Yeah. You know, so I gave me the chance to say, but you know, Jesus really wasn't talking about what you do. And the chief was like, what do you mean? I thought you said he was talking about a farmer.
Speaker 3:And so, the translator said, he's puzzled now.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, then I talked about how Jesus was actually doing something spiritual. So so, it was interesting, you know, now that chief, well, I have no idea. We've known him, he's dead now. We knew him all the way till he died.
Speaker 3:I don't know I what happened to him, but his son has become a follower
Speaker 2:of Jesus.
Speaker 3:And so, so I think about him a lot, And you so, but that thing of just being ready, that's on us.
Speaker 2:And so, I think if you're thinking, well, what can I prepare? How do I be prepared? First, it's prayer. So begin with prayer. But we live in a hope starved world and I think that's true no matter where you live.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's a unique situation. People are so desperate for hope. You know why you have hope if you're a follower of Jesus, and the answer is Jesus. So learn how to tell why you have hope because of Jesus, and it could be how Jesus has just met you in a very practical life situation. It could be about how you have peace, about what happens when you die because the hope you have in Jesus.
Speaker 2:But learn to tell a story about why you, as a person, have hope in Jesus. I think that's what Peter's getting at when he says always be prepared to give an answer for the hope that's in you. And then the other thing, I think there's so much wisdom in what you've done, is maybe pick a parable that Jesus told or a story about something Jesus did and learn how to tell that in your own words. So many people in our culture now just don't touch the Bible, don't know the Bible. So, if you can learn to put a Jesus story in your own words, in your own framework, that's gonna be something that's
Speaker 1:just a natural bridge into
Speaker 2:the conversation just like what you did. And you don't have to be a pastor or have gone to seminary to do that.
Speaker 3:And, stories are just good. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Anybody can tell those stories in their own Yeah.
Speaker 1:Have stories have a lot of power. Our stories, which you started with, and Jesus' stories, the the bible stories. They're powerful.
Speaker 3:I would say amen.
Speaker 1:Okay. We've gone
Speaker 3:too too long. We we did it. I hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:We did it. See you next week. Mhmm. Thanks for listening to the Tell Me More podcast today. You can subscribe to this podcast on your app of choice, or you can visit us at fbca.org to find out more information about the podcast and our church.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Have a good day.