Ep. 187 - Bread from Heaven
Welcome to this week's episode of tell me more. You have me, Katie Reed Hodges, and the reverend Kurt r Grice, and we talk all about Ash Wednesday for too long, and then a deep dive into John six, which is a very rich text, that points us to the the powerful and good Jesus our lord. And so we're glad that you're listening, and we hope you enjoy it. Welcome to this episode of tell me more. It is completely scripted, and we will not divert divert.
Speaker 2:Nothing could be further from between.
Speaker 1:That's not it. But it is Monday morning, but you've only got me as terms of regulars. Luke and doctor Weisz are out today, and so we have ably ably replaced
Speaker 2:them with the scripted.
Speaker 1:Kurt. Oh,
Speaker 2:Christ. You've conscripted someone to fill in.
Speaker 1:We have. I got Kurt because well, one, it's Kurt. But two, we're talking about Jesus and the book of John, and it's so theologically rich and who better to join me in here than Curt Christ. So just two of us. And, if you don't like it, then turn
Speaker 2:it off. That's right. Yeah. You're under no obligation to continue with us.
Speaker 1:This is not a live event. You have complete control.
Speaker 2:Oh, you have complete Unless by some strange occurrence, this is part of your community service requirement for, some crime you may
Speaker 1:have committed. Hosted a watch party, and you're very disappointed in how this is playing out for your first attempt at a Tamilmore watch party. So, no. I think we can handle it from here. But, there's so much, Kurt, that I wanna talk about.
Speaker 1:But since you're not here all the time, can I just get a little bit maybe maybe not, you know, to tell us where you were born and every child and everything like that Heaven snow? Maybe short, like, last few weeks even. Like, how's Lent landing with you this year?
Speaker 2:Well, Lent started right after we returned from Rome with our latest edition of the Christian history tour. Tour.
Speaker 1:What was that like for you to come from there to get
Speaker 2:to Christ? You know, Rome being there in that place always helps contextualize. We're in so many churches and it's such high church and it's a very religiously intense sort of experience. And and so it was a wonderful context. And we came back.
Speaker 2:I came back actually a week later, Kim and I stayed in Florence, one of my favorite cities and spent the week after the Christian history tour. And when we got back, Wednesday was Ash Wednesday.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And thankfully, as you know, I had already burned the palm fronds and had set them on your desk before I left
Speaker 1:just in case understood the importance
Speaker 2:of it. Died in a fiery plane crash, we wouldn't be without ashes fresh Wednesdays.
Speaker 1:Hoping you just, like, maybe a delay in the airport, but okay.
Speaker 2:Or or that, which But, yeah, you had happens all the time.
Speaker 1:Truly. The Ashes Fresh Wednesday were on my
Speaker 2:desk for all
Speaker 1:ten days.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Been thinking about it for a long time. And and because of the daily devotional that I'm I'm doing, I had to get
Speaker 1:our daily devotionals.
Speaker 2:I'm writing the daily devotional.
Speaker 1:Mean, hopefully, you're all doing it. And I mean all. I hope all of us are doing it together. But when you get it in your email, it does have your name on it,
Speaker 2:Kirk. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I hope everybody understands that you're the one crafting those for us.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah. But in order to be gone those two weeks, I had to get ahead. So I I got a head start on the season. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I got a head start on the Lenten season both in terms of preparing the ashes and writing the devotionals that would would help carry us through. So it's already been a very rich time for me and it's it's good. It was actually kind of a preface to the preparation which is the Lenten season leading to Easter.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So I I got a little bonus preseason.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. I love it.
Speaker 2:I did too. I do too. We're still in the throes of it.
Speaker 1:So tell me from your POV, Ash Wednesday here at First Service Church Arlington, you are the one that preserves the palm fronds. Mhmm. You very thoughtfully and sacredly burn them on our behalf. You even have a rhythm of I mean, do you wanna tell it or I could tell?
Speaker 2:No. You're
Speaker 1:yeah. You have a rhythm of taking it seriously, you fold them you get three of them at a time, you fold them in thirds and you burn them very specifically in your big green egg. You're cleaned out big Very green Yes. So that it's all palm So
Speaker 2:it's just palm frond.
Speaker 1:We're not we're not mixed in with yesterday's pulled pork we would No. No. And then, you sift those, you bring them to the church. This year, we mixed them not with just any olive oil. We have always tried to be thoughtful about the olive oil.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Like, good, kinda more Mhmm. Sourced, but not just the big box whatever. But this year, we actually got Raymond and Ida Masad's family vineyard, if you call it that, an olive vineyard.
Speaker 2:In Lebanon, yes.
Speaker 1:In Lebanon, olive oil from there and mixed it. And this was the best batch
Speaker 2:I think it was.
Speaker 1:Of ashes that we've done yet. And I think we've done it four years now. Four three or four
Speaker 2:years. I think this was our third actually, it feels like
Speaker 1:Ash, really? And we have gotten so much better at it, you and I.
Speaker 2:We're learning and and there's so much in
Speaker 1:what you just of ashes. Yes.
Speaker 2:There's so much in what you've just said there to to follow-up on. The thoughtfulness about it again, we are not legalist in any form or fashion.
Speaker 1:I hope not.
Speaker 2:And yet there is a sacredness to all of this that I think we do well to honor and acknowledge. And so for me, I wanna make sure I've done my part and that's as ministers of the gospel, we always wanna make sure we've done our part knowing that God does all the heavy lifting but on behalf of our people as in that priestly function, we wanna make sure we've done all that that we could or should do. And so I do take even just the nerdy preparation of the the palm fronds and even how I do that on a typically it'll be a Saturday, the winds not blowing too much. I've cleaned out the big green egg. I use just a few little charcoal, hickory charcoal just to get a fire started and then everything else is just the palm fronds.
Speaker 2:And so it's a it's a sweet time with me and God just as I'm Mhmm. As I'm doing that on behalf of our church, on behalf of the people. It's a, again, a priestly function that I can perform and then sifting those and then bringing them to you and and to the pastor and and then we take that and we You're a and so I hope our people would expect that of us. I I don't know if they even think about it but if they did pause to think about it, I would hope that our congregation would expect us to be that thoughtful and intentional and considerate about it Yeah. Because we do take this very seriously.
Speaker 1:That we do. Mhmm. And that's before we ever get into the service.
Speaker 2:True. True.
Speaker 1:Because when you get into the service and hopefully the service itself prepares us for the moment in terms of our hearts, but then you, doctor Wiles and I, stand at the front of the church and ask on behalf of God Mhmm. Our people to repent Mhmm. Which is just no small thing. I hope our people listening and watching know that that we take it. I mean, it's very humbling.
Speaker 2:It's incredibly humbling To do that. And for us, again, I would hope our people would know it's a sacred moment and we're performing a sacred function and we feel totally inadequate Yeah. To to be God's representatives for these people. And so we have personally repented
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And confessed and won. Yes.
Speaker 1:I hope that we do too. I mean, it is very humbling for me, and I make sure I go up there without the best I can. Any kind of unconfessed sin or I mean, not that I'm not that I'm trying to walk around with that. But No. No.
Speaker 1:No. Just pure before the Lord because
Speaker 2:it has become from from something to my knowledge, we've never really done at this church to just these few years ago thinking, let's this seems
Speaker 1:worthy. Let's try this.
Speaker 2:And again, I give our pastor so much appreciation for his willingness to sort of take a risk as if this is a risk but you know It what
Speaker 1:It is. And your people might be able to pallet.
Speaker 2:Sure. We don't know as you As a shepherd leads the flock, as we try to to be shepherds of the flock, we want to be considered about what what is their tolerance? Not just what would be good for them, but what is their Always. Always. What is their need?
Speaker 1:Yes. That's a good way to yeah. And so many areas we think about that.
Speaker 2:And so that was one of the considerations. And so when we first thought, well, let's do it and let's just see will people follow in this. And again, we talked about this before, but we were pleasantly surprised shocked even at how responsive the congregation was. But I think it was due in part to the fact that we had done all that we could do to be prepared in the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And because of the example, I think that we set in terms of that humility and just repenting before one another, it invited others to to join us in that. That's good. And so it has become one of honestly, I think for you and for me, one of the most meaningful services times we spend together all year.
Speaker 1:It is. For sure. There are a couple of those in my memory, and then Ash Wednesday is absolutely one of them. The church that I came from does something a little bit different that would not work here. So I'm not trying to elevate it as something we should do, but it's an interesting thought for Baptists approaching Ash Wednesday.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And they sit in the round because they have a sanctuary that's that's able to do that. They got chairs and they could be a little more modular. They sit in the round around the table. Maybe, I bet there's a 150 or 200 people that show up to this.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And, they actually, kind of priesthood of the believer style, impose on your neighbor. So, there's a couple of like concentric circles passing around the ashes. So, I would just to you, Curt, say, repent and believe the good news, and you would take the ashes from my hands, turn to your next neighbor, and then having, received, then you give. And it's incredibly meaningful and you can do it in that context with those people.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying we do that here, but it's a great because we're not I you know, as I'm thinking through, we're not priests in kind of a more hierarchical sense. We don't think we hear a special word from Maybe we're preaching and the preaching, but this Like, God might give us a word for the people, but we don't inter We don't intercede on behalf. That's Jesus. Jesus does that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so when we're doing that to each other, there's a sense where every per person in the room is a minister. Know, everyone who lives in that way could be doing that.
Speaker 2:Peter said we're a kingdom of priests.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. Sense in which we're all priests.
Speaker 1:And we just had ordination council last night where we're kind of vetting the those that will go up for ministerial ordination and deacon ordination next week. And the one of the questions was, what makes you proud to be a baptist? And one of the it was Cheryl Lovio, the deacon candidate, had a great answer about that she speaks directly to God and then can minister on his behalf. And she kinda said it that simply and it was really lovely, but just she said, this priesthood of the believer is really what I believe. And I But, you think about that with an Ash Wednesday, we're not trying to, more than we ought, represent God in that moment.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. We're not God. But we are acting on his behalf more in a prophetic sense to call it But
Speaker 2:there's also what I love about it is it's not prescripted. We have sought to sort of create appropriate to us this this shared experience. And so even you and and Dennis and I all take a slightly different approach to this.
Speaker 1:Even what we say.
Speaker 2:What say do you say?
Speaker 1:The whole thing.
Speaker 2:To each one and and take too long with each person. Too long, just I longer than have no idea what's happening in the rest of the universe. I am totally engaged with this person.
Speaker 1:And you know most of this person.
Speaker 2:And I know most of the people in front of you. There were only a couple of people that I didn't really know. So I've got a lifetime of shared experience. And so to look them in the eye and say, remember that you're dust and to dust you will return. Repent and believe the good news even as I'm imposing the ashes on them.
Speaker 2:And then more often than not, I just feel compelled to hug them. Yeah. And so I I probably get too involved maybe in the in the moment but I do that
Speaker 1:I see no wrong.
Speaker 2:With each one.
Speaker 1:I see no wrong.
Speaker 2:But there's tremendous freedom in how each one of us
Speaker 1:One thing I did this year, again, just because I felt like it, not really, was a spirit, and I thought it was the right thing to do. Because doctor Wells had said, I want you to say repent and believe the good news, like, emphasize that because of the nature of the text that he was preaching. And so because last year we said, remember you're dust and dust shall return, we emphasized that. You can say both, whatever. You could say whatever you want.
Speaker 1:We're Baptist. Yeah. But I started and just said, repent and believe the good news, and about three people in, I was like, I need to say Jesus' name in this. Like, I I need to speak the name of Jesus over every person in this line. Because it's not enough to just I mean, again, am I overthinking it?
Speaker 1:Are you overthinking it? Probably. At least we're more than any other person in the room. But I'm just thinking I want someone to repent and believe the good news of Jesus. Like, I want them to believe the right good news.
Speaker 1:I want them to believe Yeah. The good news that frees them.
Speaker 2:Good news Jesus.
Speaker 1:Is Jesus. And I just thought, I don't know. In this world right now, this cultural moment, it's not enough to just believe good news. It's never enough to just believe good news. No.
Speaker 1:You're right. But I wanna speak Jesus Christ over every person in my line.
Speaker 2:And that speaks again, there's a whole another topic we could go on is being sensitive to the spirits prompt ing and leading in our lives. And so I would hope we're all learning to do that better.
Speaker 1:So perhaps in that moment, the spirit of God said, you need to speak Jesus over every person in this line and I thought that's I just so so I said repent and believe the good news of Jesus Christ. I love it. And then hugged those that I knew Yeah. Cried with those that cried with me and, you know, it's just
Speaker 2:it's so special. The the ones who clearly it it's meaningful to us. Clearly, it's meaningful to so many others.
Speaker 1:Much to your and then we we're nerding out and no one else cares. So but I'm gonna keep going. Much to, like, your point, I'm only focused on the person in front of me. And I you know, and it's that do I know their name? Do I know their story?
Speaker 1:What how is this landing and everything I do know about their life? Mhmm. Then they move and you're just caught by the next person.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Well, for me, that move the one that was there were a couple that hit me very deeply. That person moves and the next person staring at me is Rosemary Wade. Uh-huh. And then I just peek behind her and there's Charles Wade. Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, jeez, like, it's kinda like, I'm not fit to untie their symbols, am you know? I? And you just do it. And it's again, the we all know Charles Wade, a hero, but he this is also his church that he's watched morph and change over the years and and and mostly with pride, which is so meaningful to me. But the the dude is submitting himself to a practice that he did not implement at our church, that we did.
Speaker 1:Right. And he's, you know, first in line. I mean, not first, actually even more profoundly just in line with the rest of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. You you keep catching yourself going one more one more one more.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 2:For whatever reason, we we didn't do this during Charles' ministry, but he
Speaker 1:It was a different era.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's not
Speaker 1:just him.
Speaker 2:No. Yeah. That's not the thing, but but but he's a part of this church.
Speaker 1:And he's submitting himself to it.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And so he wasn't first in line. He was just in line, and he waited to
Speaker 1:And he didn't even go to the pastor's line. And so He just went to my line. I So that's lot of
Speaker 2:trouble about the significance of all of this and who we are before the Lord. And and so truly, like, I I didn't call people by name. Typically, I would just say brother or sister. I just wanna make that family connection. Yep.
Speaker 2:And then usually in the end, God bless you. I just wanna see the blessing over. The the point of this for me is there's incredible freedom for all of us to live out this shared experience in a way that's meaningful and for the body, for corporate experience to then launch this whole Lenten season. It's just a very beautiful
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm gonna break my rome and tell one more story. Okay.
Speaker 2:This is your show. You can do whatever you want.
Speaker 1:This is podcast. And here, I didn't tell last week about the boys, our our boys and their and their ashes. I didn't write when you okay. So I care I just told it a minute ago, but very shortly, Ryan and I both participated. Ryan did not get in my line, he never does, which I love.
Speaker 1:It's like his sense of the church. He doesn't need to be you know, it's bigger than just me. Yes. But the first time it hurt my feelings and the third time it feels just right. So he went to your line, Kurt.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know. I know he did. I wasn't gonna say that. I mean, it was in my line.
Speaker 1:But and that is beautiful and good. We're not you know, it's it's just bigger than just our little family. But, anyway, we got home to put the boys to bed and they we got them play for a minute and they were in worship care. They weren't with us in the sanctuary. They're three.
Speaker 1:And so they had we had ashes on our forehead and they just said, what is that? And they all started looking and they noticed, what is that? And I was like Ryan and I both were like, how do we what do we do? And I just said, this means that we believe God loves us. And, of course, they were like, well And Ryan was like, do you want this?
Speaker 1:And we kind of, you know, collaborated in the kitchen running out, what are thinking? Is he logically
Speaker 2:This is parenting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. This is parenting in the moment. And then and so I said, if you believe that god loves you, then you can do this. And they said, okay. And we I said, can you say it to us?
Speaker 1:We I believe that God loves me. And they all said, I believe that God loves me. And they came and got in a line,
Speaker 2:because there's
Speaker 1:three of them. Mhmm. And Ryan took ashes off my forehead and put them on their forehead, and I think just said, God loves you when he did it. I don't think he asked them to repent. And then it was obviously very meaningful.
Speaker 1:That moment was very meaningful for us. Well, then, we go to bed and I've we they've washed their faces and they don't have it, but Ryan and I still do. And again, Jack says, what is that? And I said, you know what that is. What is that?
Speaker 1:And he said, God loves me and God loves you. And I thought, this is beautiful. Score. We're doing something You know? It's just these sweet moments of, like, watching our kids develop and be curious, a great reminder that they're just watching all the time and that you can use any ordinary moment to
Speaker 2:shape them, you know. You know, we're all trying to figure so what is this? You know, what is this following the Jesus way? What is life in Christ?
Speaker 1:And Mhmm. And And although we're not legalists, why would we do things physically to represent that? You know what I mean? Yeah. You could call baptism legalism.
Speaker 1:You could call ashes, but, these are these outward expressions actually show the world something. It show our kids something.
Speaker 2:It shows us something. Yeah. And so it's another tangible multi sensory active engagement Yeah.
Speaker 1:That I just don't think we do enough of it. No. And that's not a critique of our church. I just think we're hesitant to do. It almost seems elementary.
Speaker 2:You and I have had enough conversations over the decade about things that we might experiment with that would help us and potentially our people.
Speaker 1:I like the tactile. I like the service remembrance where you get up and you come and light a candle. Yeah. It's there's something
Speaker 2:to So meaningful.
Speaker 1:And doing it in community
Speaker 2:So all of this allows us to engage
Speaker 1:You with might have to delete at least half of this. This is we're twenty minutes in. Yeah. And we're nerding out
Speaker 2:about nothing. Well, yeah, I mean Clearly, it's meaningful. It's clearly meaningful to us. So
Speaker 1:Well, and that's the beauty of it. But I wanna talk about the bible. Wanna talk about Yes. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Let please. Let's jump in. I love it. We can shift gears just like that.
Speaker 1:One thing, for those at home, one, we apologize. Two, I want you to know there's a few things going on this weekend. If you have a youth in the house, they better be at encounter week this week. Our youth chef's working hard on it. It's gonna be super fun.
Speaker 1:It really is very meaningful. I had a meaningful experience at those kind of weekends when I was in youth. Absolutely. Do that. If you're if you need help paying for it, if you need help figuring out how to sign up late, email me, whatever.
Speaker 1:We'll figure it out. This weekend at our church, we are ordaining Mhmm. The deacon. We're licensing someone to ministry, and we're ordaining someone to ministry. That's Cheryl Lovio, Tiffany Ward, Michael Glenn.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Those are very important. We're voting on a ton of stuff Sunday morning. The budget, the the world mission offering or engagement offering.
Speaker 2:Committees.
Speaker 1:The committees and those that I just named that are going up for, ordination and licensing. So I guess what I'm saying is don't miss it and be around for what's going on in the life of church.
Speaker 2:Going on. It speaks to the kind of church we are with this congregational polity where it's our it's your church. It's our church.
Speaker 1:We could do another twenty minutes here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. And so we are all responsible for these kinds of big decisions. Yeah. And so we invite participation as appropriate Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Either by representative leadership of church members who serve in a particular function
Speaker 1:That's the committees.
Speaker 2:Or the voting on things that need to be voted on.
Speaker 1:That's the whole Sunday morning. There'll be two ballot votes. It does sometimes it can seem cumbersome and clunky. Some people could even say, can't y'all just figure that out? But in an age of scandal and low institutional trust, this is a good way to do things.
Speaker 2:Well, it it provides not just checks and balances. It does that and and appropriate accountability, but it hopefully engenders that kind of participation and engagement that helps people realize this is important. This matters.
Speaker 1:And it's their church.
Speaker 2:There's some ownership there. Our church.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. It's good. With all that said, the book of John is my favorite gospel.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I wanna talk about it with you.
Speaker 2:Let's do it. Go ahead. Jump in.
Speaker 1:You wanna so John six.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Where do wanna start?
Speaker 2:What a rich chapter.
Speaker 1:Many stories are in John six?
Speaker 2:Well, there there are at least three solid ones. The big ones? Yeah. It it just, it it starts with the feeding of the 5,000, which is actually 10,000 plus.
Speaker 1:Because 5,000 would only been the men.
Speaker 2:5,000 men plus women, children, and whoever else might have been there. So Oh, with the with the boys
Speaker 1:little lunch.
Speaker 2:Conservative estimates at least 10,000 people, which you you try to imagine, gosh, that's that's a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's like College Park Avenue.
Speaker 2:Lot of people. Ish. And so they're just out they're away from town on the Eastern Shore, Northeastern Shore of of the Sea Of Galilee. And it's just this remote area that's hilly, lots of green
Speaker 1:It's just kind of a fishing village.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so there's 10,000 people and they're there because Jesus is getting very popular.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:He's been performing these miracles and and words getting out and so that season
Speaker 1:They're not necessarily there to repent and believe the Jesus.
Speaker 2:Heavens, no. In fact, I'm I'm not sure any of them were. They they were there because this famous guy Yeah. Was in the area.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And there wasn't a whole lot else going on.
Speaker 1:And word was spreading that
Speaker 2:he was doing some cool things. Yeah. We didn't have smartphones then or other distractions and so if some
Speaker 1:famous at the local movie theater.
Speaker 2:Some famous guys in town, by golly, are gonna go check it out. I mean, you might have gotten 10,000 people to come look at a two headed cow, but, you know, I mean, this is a famous But even better, you've got this is a famous healer coming through town.
Speaker 1:Word gets out. They show up. Yeah. And They look hungry.
Speaker 2:And Jesus looks out and as as Dennis said, Mark's the one who says they they were like sheep without a shepherd to him. And so he's already said we're talking about the good shepherd, but the first I am saying takes place in John six when he says, I am the bread of heaven. I'm the living bread. But we don't get there yet. But he sets it all up and this is this is God's story that John is telling.
Speaker 2:And so he helps contextualize chapter six with Passover's coming. So just heads up, Passover's coming. And if you know anything about the origins of that, the meaning of that, the importance of that, that really sets the context for what's about to happen. And so Jesus is in that vein of being the Passover lamb and is teaching these people who are really just interested in some entertainment and distraction. They didn't know they were gonna get fed.
Speaker 2:They were there literally
Speaker 1:of a bonus.
Speaker 2:For the entertainment value. And I don't wanna discount. Some of them I'm sure were seeking that spiritual Messiah who was gonna come. Now there was nationalistic stuff there and and lots of history of the Jewish nation, but I'm sure there was a spiritual component for some of them.
Speaker 1:For some of them, they were genuine. Yeah. But
Speaker 2:also the healing miracle was spread through that was a thread that went through all of what Jesus was doing. And so everybody was or knew somebody who was experiencing some infirmity. And so if there was a way to get healed, then sure I'm all in on that. So I'm sure that was part of it as well. But so Jesus, his first thought is, look at all these people and I feel responsible for them.
Speaker 2:And so because we're told that Andrew and Peter and Philip were from that part of the world, Bethsaida was their hometown. So in that Northeast part of the Sea Of Galilee, they were local boys. And so that I think explains why he he looks at Philip. Why pick Philip out of the crowd? Well, Philip, you're from here.
Speaker 2:Where do we get bread for all these people?
Speaker 1:And
Speaker 2:presumably Philip would know And Philip's like when it's late in the day, there's 10,000 people. The nearest villages, man, at this time of the day, the bread shops are closed. They start early. You've know? Been to a bakery where they start early and then they're finished kinda like Shipley's Doughnuts.
Speaker 1:Shipley's is exactly what I was gonna say. I know about that particular one quite well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the whole rhythm the schedule of that, you know, so we're but anyway What's
Speaker 1:your favorite bakery, Kurt?
Speaker 2:I I don't have one. So even if we could find the bread, there's no way we could even pay for it because it'd be, like, eight months wages.
Speaker 1:Wheels are just turning. Like So Jesus you have asked
Speaker 2:me Jesus has asked me a a real question. I feel he feels responsible treating those people. One He's asked me, but I feel responsible.
Speaker 1:Two, even if we could get it, who's got the money? Yeah.
Speaker 2:We we don't have ridiculous. Yeah. We don't have the capacity. And so Foolish. John tells us, but Jesus said that just to test him.
Speaker 2:And so the whole point was it's impossible. Right?
Speaker 1:Yep. Get there. Get there. You would know more The quicker you get there.
Speaker 2:Would know more than anybody what the possibilities are and and you have to it's impossible. Right? Mhmm. Good. Watch what I'm about to
Speaker 1:do. Right. In our church, it'd like getting Jeff Williams up there. Who knows all the resources in town and saying, okay, Jeff, we gotta get up.
Speaker 2:We do this.
Speaker 1:And you watch Jeff Williams go, no? I mean, I could call. No. That
Speaker 2:won't work.
Speaker 1:Well, we couldn't afford it.
Speaker 2:Right? I
Speaker 1:no. And then Jesus like Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even you. Watch this. Yeah. But then because Andrew is also from the area, we don't know who the little boy is but but presumably, he had connections and network. He knew people and Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, hey, Tommy. Yeah. What do you got in the bag there? Five little barley loaves and two small fish. So local boy Philip says, Jesus, I don't think we can do it.
Speaker 2:And local boy Andrew says, hey, well I've got five barley You gotta loaves kiss one two fish. And so great. That's all we need. And can you imagine just the confusion, the sort of Jesus, man, we like trust you and all but are you serious? You know?
Speaker 1:We're about to embarrass ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This this kid this kid didn't dwell. Have them all sit down in like fifties and hundreds. Okay? So I'm assuming the disciples then at that point just begin to give instruction to the crowd and have everybody sit on this little hillside in green pastures in fifties and hundreds.
Speaker 1:Is the water
Speaker 2:still as well? Yeah. Well, you alluded to At that point, maybe the water is
Speaker 1:still The evening Galilee is quite nice.
Speaker 2:It's about to get rough in just a second.
Speaker 1:Well, you don't have time to talk about that. You don't get to talk about that one.
Speaker 2:But but but so and then and then Jesus as he always does, you think about the times where he took the bread and and whatever and gave thanks and then began to distribute it to his disciples. And they took it and started giving it to the groups of fifties and hundreds and came back and got more and got more. And so as is always the case, the miracle is in the hands of Jesus. When the disciples, the miracles in the hands of Jesus and they just did what he said, didn't understand it, couldn't conceive of what was going on but kept coming back to Jesus and he would give them more and they would take it and distribute it. And they come back to Jesus, he would give them more, they distribute And who knows how long
Speaker 1:this took?
Speaker 2:I mean, this was no quick, you know, boom boom. This wasn't a microwave meal. This was taking time just for the sheer volume of people. But what an amazing miracle. And at some point, they've gotta be thinking, what what's going on here?
Speaker 2:What that just five barley loaves and two fish? How can this be happening? And it begins to dawn on them and then after everybody didn't just get a bite but had all they wanted, he said, don't let anything be wasted. And so they they found 12 baskets and presumably each of the disciples collected a basket full of quality leftovers. And all that speaks to is Jesus' abundance, his generosity, his capacity, his abundance.
Speaker 2:It wasn't just enough to get by, it was more than enough. If there had been 20,000 people, it would have been more than enough. And so what's the lesson that we learned there? Know Tell me Curt, what is it? He knows what he's doing and he's not limited to our understanding.
Speaker 2:He's not even limited to our agreement or alignment. He he just trusts me. Me. Trust me. And and he makes it happen.
Speaker 2:And so then it was such a wonderful experience that they wanted to to make him king.
Speaker 1:By force, I'm reading it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Anybody that can actually heal sick people and feed a crowd and say things that stir our hearts, let's make this guy king better than any politician or government official we've ever had before. Surely this is the prophet. So so Jesus knew that's what they had in mind and so he he slips away. He withdrew.
Speaker 2:And they they, like we, want Jesus to do what Jesus does on their terms. Go on. Rather than submitting to to the father's will, which was always what Jesus intended to do. He only wanted what the father wanted. The people, we, the people, like the idea that Jesus has this miracle working power and that he's ultimately good and loving and all.
Speaker 2:But we want him to do that on our terms.
Speaker 1:Terms. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:We put refuse to do that. Mhmm. And so he dismissed the people. Mhmm. Mark tells us that he instructed the disciples to get in the boat and go back to Capernaum.
Speaker 2:And then he went up on the mountain just to be alone with the father Mhmm. And and to pray. And so he was there for several hours. By sunset, everybody's heading back to wherever they're gonna spend the night. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:The disciples are out on the boat in the middle of the lake.
Speaker 1:No. You don't get to talk about that one. You don't get to
Speaker 2:talk about this Yeah. Then the next miracle comes. So there's there's the miracle of the feeding of the fire.
Speaker 1:We gotta skip the walking on the water so that we can get to
Speaker 2:Jesus' words after it. So Because You're right. So then they It's
Speaker 1:drive time podcast.
Speaker 2:Right. So eventually, find him on the other side.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:How'd you get here? Well, he didn't tell him because he didn't want them to be enamored with
Speaker 1:the miracles. Yeah. What do you
Speaker 2:So he doesn't say, well, okay. Yeah. You know, I walked on water over there and I got in the boat and then immediately it was at the Mhmm. That was a distraction they didn't need.
Speaker 1:So they the crowd went to Capernaum because they just
Speaker 2:Well, they knew that was the base of operation now, though. He he wasn't still over there. They didn't know how he left. They knew the
Speaker 1:disciples were So they went
Speaker 2:to where they knew he hung out.
Speaker 1:We'll just go find him probably in back
Speaker 2:in Capernaum. So they did. Hey. How'd you get here?
Speaker 1:And they did. And he and that was exactly what happened.
Speaker 2:And then he says, yeah. You know, you're looking to me not because
Speaker 1:There's lot of red letters.
Speaker 2:There's a
Speaker 1:lot of red letters right now. I'm I'm in my bible.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The the sixth chapter of John has a lot of red letters
Speaker 1:which right here where he gets them and he turns to them and he's like
Speaker 2:And and it's a word of rebuke and so Verily
Speaker 1:verily is that the
Speaker 2:Amen. Amen. Yep. I'm telling you the truth. Listen up.
Speaker 2:I'm serious. Yeah. But this is the same Jesus who had just seen these people the day before on the other side and his heart was heavy for them because
Speaker 1:Sheepers and
Speaker 2:shepherd. A shepherd. Yeah. You know? But it's also the firm Jesus who says, you know, you're you're not looking for me because you're seeking repentance or salvation or the kingdom of God.
Speaker 2:You just want another meal, you're hungry again. Or you want me to heal your sick people or you're affirmed or whatever. And so I I can do that but that's not the point.
Speaker 1:This is the truth teller, Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what I always wanna say is Jesus doesn't want them to be impressed with what he did. He wanted them to believe in who he was. That was the goal. That was eternal life.
Speaker 2:That was salvation. So
Speaker 1:True for us today?
Speaker 2:Absolutely true And for us so again, we get into him being the bread from heaven and he connects it to manna. They say, hey, you know Moses fed the people in the wilderness this bread and he said, well actually Moses didn't do it. God did it and he gave them just what they needed every day and it was a daily dependence on God to provide for all of their needs. And so that's what Jesus says Mhmm. In his model prayer for his disciples, give us this day our daily bread.
Speaker 2:Essentially, it's that manna. I don't think it's just your nutritional value. I think it's everything you need. Oh, yeah. To live well today, to flourish.
Speaker 1:That's a metaphor.
Speaker 2:To live life that God intends every day. Yeah. He he provides that. So I'm sorry. We've probably gone way past what we were trying to do.
Speaker 1:No. I just thought you might spend as much time on this as you did unpacking the feeding of the 5,000. I wanted to give you time. But if you wanna go back and talk about walking on the water, you can because you did so well.
Speaker 2:It's just so beautiful because, Jesus meets us in the storm.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you from, like, a biblical student perspective? It's why the walking on water in between the stories of the bread? Do you think it's just that's the way it happened or is John trying to tell us something? Do you know what I mean? Because sometimes in the bible, there's a story that starts Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And then there's something seemingly unrelated in the middle of it and then it comes back and finishes the story. And that's kinda what I see in the ark here. Mark does it a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And there's so much we can gain from that. Partly again, just affirms his capacity. He has supreme authority over all of nature.
Speaker 2:The forces of darkness and evil, all creation, the souls of men and women, you know. So he has just supreme authority over everything. And I think it just gives us another glimpse into who Jesus is and where the disciples are in their journey with him.
Speaker 1:And
Speaker 2:so in the daily devotional that'll come out this week when I talk about this Mhmm. I I feel like there are times
Speaker 1:where There were five right now. Chapter five in the daily devotionals this morning.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. So we'll get to six. Yeah.
Speaker 1:This week is five and six.
Speaker 2:Okay. I I can never remember when I
Speaker 1:actually today, Monday,
Speaker 2:it's five. I can never remember when I wrote this.
Speaker 1:I read it this morning. It's a pool of Bethsaida.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yeah. So it was Bethsaida.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mispronounced it.
Speaker 2:It's the pool of Bethsaida.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I So
Speaker 2:those were yeah. Those are Bethsaida. Yep. But so wherever it was in this whole mix, I I when when Dennis assigns the text, I just sit with the text for a while and just ask god to impart some. There's a million directions you can go with.
Speaker 1:So D Dub picks the text.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He says, okay. What's on the command. Here he assigns the text to preach, and then you understand why
Speaker 1:it fits in and sometimes you
Speaker 2:don't. Exactly.
Speaker 1:So And sometimes your sermon fits in his arc and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 2:But he's gracious in that regard
Speaker 1:trying to be faithful with the spirit.
Speaker 2:So what are
Speaker 1:supposed to do?
Speaker 2:That's exactly What do
Speaker 1:you want me to do?
Speaker 2:The the the way I felt led to go with this when the disciples have been rowing for hours into this stiff storm headwind. And and these guys grew up on the water especially the local guys. This is a fishing area and and they they're they know how to work a boat. You know, they know how to work a storm but it's just so frustrating. And they're just doing what Jesus told them to do and it's a beat down.
Speaker 2:And I'm sure they're exhausted and they're taking turns rowing, it's just hard. And then all of a sudden here comes Jesus. And what I think I remember writing was they they've gone from this high, literal high up on the mountainside Right. Where they're getting to participate in this miracle with Jesus and if you've never seen anything like this. And we're able to give the people just what they need and it's so satisfying and man, it's good to be with Jesus.
Speaker 2:And then he sends them away and they're doing what he said and it's it's hard and and it's stormy and they're exhausted and it's late at night, they haven't slept and and it's just so hard and gosh, we're just doing what he said we're supposed to do and it's just a beat down. And then all of a sudden here comes Jesus and at first they're terrified. Then it's a ghost because a person can't do this.
Speaker 1:And then
Speaker 2:he says, I am, which literally it's the I am, it's me. And he climbs in the boat and immediately they're at the destination. Well, what do I glean from that? He is able and he doesn't just invite us into the blessing almost like us getting to impose ashes which is just such a rich meaningful time. When we're at our wits end and just beat down and we're exhausted and discouraged and the storm is raging.
Speaker 2:Where's Jesus? You know?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I was just doing what I was supposed to do. Where's Jesus?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And here he comes. And in the moment, everything's good. Strength.
Speaker 1:Power.
Speaker 2:He can do Dominion. He can do in a moment what we couldn't do with our best at Ever. Yeah. That's kinda what's in that whole walk in the water thing. But then we get to how fickle the we don't have time for this.
Speaker 2:The crowd is so sick because, oh, we're getting what we want. Great. Hey, feed us, heal us, man. Make us happy. Tell us things we wanna hear.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is great. Great. Great. But then, no. This is a hard saying.
Speaker 2:It's not hard to understand. It's hard to explain.
Speaker 1:The end of John six is again And
Speaker 2:then it says, in that time forward, how many let's say it's the 10,000. Man, 9,950 left.
Speaker 1:The heading on the end of John in my NIV, the heading on it says, many disciples desert Jesus.
Speaker 2:That's it?
Speaker 1:Because on on hearing it I mean, and we're now and we're in verse 60. It's a very long chapter. Mhmm. Verse 60. On hearing it, many of his disciples said, this is a hard teaching.
Speaker 1:Who can accept it?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And they left.
Speaker 1:But Jesus says, does this offend you? Uh-huh. Then just wait. The spirit is life. And he's and then he goes on to say, eat my body and drink my blood.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which is is very hard saying. But always the people are focused on the physical immediate. And again, can't be hard, that's us too. But we are so focused on the immediate and the physical that we miss most of the time what what God's inviting us to which is that transcendent and eternal, the spiritual.
Speaker 2:And so that why the parables, why the illustrations, why the stories and
Speaker 1:Tell us
Speaker 2:He's trying to raise our gaze all the time. He cares about the immediate and the physical. He fed the people Yeah.
Speaker 1:He does.
Speaker 2:Right there what they need. But it's always a means to trying to captivate them with what God is up to and we just we struggle. And so when it got hard and they didn't understand or they didn't like it, they just left. And so the crowd is so fickle that we can't subject to and Jesus didn't. He didn't care what people thought.
Speaker 2:You know, wanna make me king. He didn't want the accolades or applause. He just slipped away because that wasn't what he was about. And so he was nonplussed when they were all cheering for him. He was nonplussed when they all turned on him, you know, no murmuring.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't part of his identity.
Speaker 2:He was there to do the father's will. Yeah. And he knew most of them wouldn't get it. I mean, wide is the road that leads to destruction, that's the way most people go, but narrow is the road that leads to eternal life.
Speaker 1:But the disciples the disciples at the very end, the the 12. He says, you're gonna turn away too? And they say
Speaker 2:Where where would we go?
Speaker 1:You have the words of eternal life. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2:It is. It is. So so much there. Y'all read it, read it, and read it again and just ask the spirit of truth to guide you into all truth. Well, we did it.
Speaker 2:Okay. Thank you friends for hanging with us.
Speaker 1:We'll be back next week. Thanks for listening to the Tell Me More podcast today. You can subscribe to this podcast on your app of choice, or you can visit us at fbca.org to find out more information about the podcast and our church. Thanks for listening. Have a good day.