Ep. 189 - The Ascent Movement
Welcome to another episode of Tell Me More. Today, instead of discussing the sermon, which we probably should have done a little bit more of, we just gush and talk about Ascent and how wonderful of an experience it was for all of us, and we hope that it's a meaningful episode for you as you listen.
Speaker 2:We are back in the studio. It is Tuesday morning.
Speaker 1:You asked the Saint Patrick's Day.
Speaker 2:It and I man, I did not dress my kids in any green at all.
Speaker 1:They're toast.
Speaker 2:I did not know.
Speaker 1:They're gonna get Punch.
Speaker 3:Four, three year olds. I have money in my wallet, so I have money.
Speaker 2:I got nothing. I mean, nothing.
Speaker 1:I wore green pants.
Speaker 2:You're you're ready. I literally have a
Speaker 3:I love Saint Patrick's Day. I love Saint Patrick's
Speaker 2:Perhaps we should talk about Saint Patrick now that
Speaker 3:I'm aware. Really was.
Speaker 1:I mean was imprisoned Yeah. In Ireland. So he really
Speaker 2:was Irish? Let's start there.
Speaker 1:No. He well He was a missionary to Ireland.
Speaker 3:Was a
Speaker 2:missionary to Ireland
Speaker 1:from England? England. Yeah.
Speaker 3:He was an Anglo. But he did go there as a slave.
Speaker 1:Yep. Was imprisoned, had just prayed daily in prison, prayed all day, loved the Lord, managed to kind of miraculously escape, went back to the other island, which was not called England at the time. Right. We'll call it England. But he had a series of dreams where I think one of them, like an Irish person delivered a letter to him.
Speaker 1:It was almost like a Macedonian type dream but delivers this letter. As he opens the letter to read it, he hears almost a chorus of Irish voices saying, come and walk with us. Come and help us. And so, he went back to the place where he was a captive in prison.
Speaker 2:Think about that.
Speaker 1:Let's just
Speaker 2:think about
Speaker 1:that. And spread the gospel.
Speaker 3:Started like 2,000 churches.
Speaker 1:Monasteries baptized thousands of people. And then
Speaker 3:the missionaries from there went back to England and and well, he established schools and orphanages and I mean, he he really had a massive impact on Western civilization if you think about it because a lot of those people went back to England and carried education as well as evangelism and church planting. Yeah. He was he he doesn't get enough credit for being as influential he was.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It turns out not just a drinking holiday.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's funny how they celebrate him. It's Ireland is how I resolve.
Speaker 2:Yeah. How did it become what it is now?
Speaker 3:Just Let me have a swig of my sweet tea while I'm sitting around.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, it just turned
Speaker 3:to a kind of greeting group. It's just Irish kind of the way they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, did the guy who tried to convert the Roman empire Roman emperor and get martyred for it become a holiday where we give each other roses and chocolates?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Consumerism. Consumerism. Yeah. But, yeah, Saint Patrick was an awesome Amazing.
Speaker 3:An awesome man. Well And so happy Saint Patrick's Day. Patrick's Day. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. We're in here on Tuesday Well because we were all well, a lot of our staff was scattered last week but the three of us were at the Ascent So good. And then yet we took yesterday to kinda reset and now you were here. I'm gonna ask y'all maybe really broadly. I hate to say how was Ascent?
Speaker 1:So good. Great.
Speaker 2:Made Ascent special?
Speaker 1:It's the people for me. Like, you walk into that room and, you know, I've been American Baptist before. I worked at this university in Kansas that a lot of it's a weird kind of crossroads of Christianity in America because Richard Foster taught there. So when I go to an Ascent Room, I see people that in some cases I've known for ten years or more. From various But in different worlds.
Speaker 1:But in different worlds. And so for me, it's just as fascinating. The worlds come together. And so for example, when I was graduating from Truett almost ten years ago, there was a woman who worked for, at the time it was ABC, Idaho Montana, now it's Mission Northwest. And she would talk to me on the phone for hours just trying to get me to come pastor like tiny churches and towns of 300 people in like cattle ranch towns in Idaho which is not Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Who I am. But she was so caring and her name's Patty Duckworth. And Patty and I had kinda kept in touch over the years but never met face to face. Well, she got honored on the stage at Ascent this year. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I heard her name and realized she was there in person and I just went, oh my gosh, Patty Duckworth is here like You took a selfie with Beth Moore. Mhmm. I took a selfie with Patty Duckworth, but went down and she was talking to someone so I waited and she saw my name tag. Again, we've never met face to face. She saw my name tag, knew exactly who I was, we hugged, we talked, she prayed over me.
Speaker 1:Beautiful moment and that's just the room, innocent. It's good. It's really thoughtful people.
Speaker 2:Extrapolate that moment times 500. Yeah. You just get the sense that everyone in there is back in the room with people they really admire from other seasons of life.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, you know, we celebrated you and Ashley's new roles and Michael's new role. Mhmm. And so to see Ashley, they had a time of anointing for you guys.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about Ashley Berryhill. Ashley mean, I can can can contribute anything from my own experience. I'm happy to. I'm not trying to ditch that. But, yeah, Ashley has really found a sweet spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh.
Speaker 2:Is she not? Is that fair?
Speaker 1:You tell that Ashley is, like, where she belongs when we're at Ascent.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's really fun to watch.
Speaker 1:And so to see her get prayed over by,
Speaker 2:like, Jennifer Lau In this in this experience that we talked about, like, they acknowledged, you know, maybe for clarification, for those listening that are still trying to figure out what is ascent. Mhmm. One clarification is they're not trying to become a denomination. Here's a good example. They're not trying to ordain or endorse ministers, chaplains, but they wanna celebrate those in the room that have been ordained or endorsed.
Speaker 2:So they had a moment to do that. Michael our Michael Glenn was honored in that moment. So not trying to put an Ascent stamp on in in any official way. Mhmm. But let's all recognize, give a gift, lay hands on Michael.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:After that, anyone who had gotten an so Ascent is not going to move people around, place, give promotions or placements. They're gonna celebrate those who have gotten promotions or placements. Mhmm. So for those that got that, which would be Ashley, Michael, I this year in this new staff restructure, they had us kinda come to the aisle and prayed over us. Again, here's a little bit of other with anointing oil.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. You don't see that in some of the circles that we're in. And had looked at the list of people and and pretty much one for one assigned people who they knew would mean something to come pray over them. Yeah. So I had Carrie Sims who's become a very good friend of mine, kinda one of those from ten years ago back in my life.
Speaker 2:Carrie's husband, Gannon, is the pastor at Cliff Temple. In Oak Cliff. She's a minister as well. They met or no. They went they're both from Duke Divinity, but they're Virginia Baptist that are now Texas Baptist and just kinda the
Speaker 1:Great people.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Great people. And so, you know, having Carrie pray over me, it was like, well, somebody thought this through. This is very meaningful for me.
Speaker 3:You're welcome.
Speaker 2:There it is. And I and I think it was notable that it wasn't doctor Watts because you were on the team that was divvying this out, that there's a thoughtfulness of, like Mhmm. Spreading it out a little bit, which I appreciate. Because not that it doesn't mean a lot, but No. It's it's other.
Speaker 3:You see me all the time.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't wanna take that for granted. No.
Speaker 2:Start with That's another thing. Okay.
Speaker 3:I had anointed Simon Lee Jones, who's a new staff member on Cindy's
Speaker 1:staff. And I got to anoint and pray over one of my dear friends who's a French Canadian pastor.
Speaker 2:All thoughtful. Mhmm. Which is a good word for a sin. So, okay. All that behind us.
Speaker 2:But Ashley, out in the aisle kinda next to me, has Jennifer Lau, who I know has just been one of the most life giving friendships to my friend Ashley in the last I don't know. Well, you can go back as far as you want. It's one of the most life giving friends hips I've seen.
Speaker 1:And it's probably one of the most like brilliant missions leaders in the world right now, I would say.
Speaker 2:And there is a just like calling to like with her and Ashley. Mhmm. I think they have found each other. It's like the American version of the Canadian version in there. And they're just really enjoying each other's friendship.
Speaker 2:So to see that but then Ashley's little circle gets bigger, like there's these other
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:People that are just feeling this, like, draw to her and this kinship, and I'm just watching her little prayer huddle grow. Mhmm. I'm I'm I'm gonna say it again. Pictures of both
Speaker 1:of you. I'm say it again,
Speaker 2:like, my time with Carrie was very meaningful for me. So I I just need y'all to
Speaker 3:I would hope so.
Speaker 2:Some help. But but yeah. So somehow let me I'm not trying to compare. But mine is everybody else is kinda done, and I'm talking to some other people who I love, and it was really good. And Ashley, hers has somehow moved, like, 10 feet towards stage, and then there's a totally different group of people praying over Ashley.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And it's and I then I get to you know, we we're sharing a hotel room, so I get talk to her later and visit with her in the morning and it's just it is growing my friend. Mhmm. It is blessing my friend. And not just for her own ego Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But for the for our missional life here at Hope of Charlton and just clearly beyond as well. Really fun to be a part of as an observer in that way.
Speaker 1:And we had a couple of lay people from our church there this time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Great. Yeah. Which is
Speaker 1:so good to get their perspective. So, if you I'm gonna throw throw them out there.
Speaker 2:We'll do it. Just name them.
Speaker 1:You know, if you wanna go hunt down Rebecca Dark or Emily King and just pick their brains.
Speaker 2:Cindy, obviously. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cindy's there. But some new perspectives on what it is. You know, pick their brains, see what they thought. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That might actually be really helpful. Kind of every man in a good way,
Speaker 3:you know. So
Speaker 1:But you're the you're the chair of the steering council.
Speaker 2:Talk about it from your POV.
Speaker 3:Well, I think this Deb. I think a similar things happened to Luke though. Luke has found a tribe
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:In a sense. Yes. And there's a lot of love and respect for Luke.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And We can have a I mean, I can recount my views of Luke this week too. I'd be happy to.
Speaker 3:And I think the same is true for you. There's a lot of respect for you there.
Speaker 2:Oh, I hope I didn't downplay.
Speaker 3:Oh, no. I'm just saying. Because I'm just watching a half of me. All of y'all
Speaker 1:know is helping lead a network for high level women in ministry.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The Junia network.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Which is awesome. Because Carrie Sims has Carrie and I were friends from again,
Speaker 3:I didn't You mean Junia that was in the bible? You know, the were listed as an apostle. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:That's the one.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:That's the one.
Speaker 2:Well, one of the first things this is my understanding. Doctor Wallace could talk about it firsthand. I'll talk about it secondhand. One of the first things Ascent wanted to do is put some things out there so that that could have some traction, not just ideas, but action
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So that people could start seeing and and understanding. And one of those was the junior network, which is a cohort a network that runs cohorts. Mhmm. So hopefully it will turn into a network of support. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Right now, there's only one cohort, that is the network of support. For women in I don't think it's written in there because we don't wanna be what we're we're not trying to advertise what we're not, but it is for women in levels of leadership that are with a lot of men. I mean, that's kind of the subtext. So Carrie asked me and a few others to kinda be on a steering team, a smaller Zoom so you can throw ideas out and say, how did that go? Which is probably good always, but certainly when you're piloting something and pioneering something.
Speaker 2:And so because we've had a friendship for a long time, she kinda looped me in there, which has been particularly helpful because the one in the one the the ending cohort meeting is in Waco, which obviously I'm very familiar with and Carrie's not. So that's been helpful. It's good, you know, it's good to be useful. So Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:And then Luke I'll I'll okay. My POV and then I'll shut up for the rest of the podcast. My POV of Luke is that you have just made some real friendships. Yeah. Real.
Speaker 2:I mean,
Speaker 1:like Yeah.
Speaker 2:What we would actually call friends, not just acquaintances. So when you go to this conference, we talked about it last week, we huddled up before we left. So what do we wanna get out of this? How do we wanna do this? And it was basically like, I I say this with a lot of respect, like, y'all might not see me much, I'm there doing what I think I need to do, which is continue to build these relationships Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And find these networks and find these placement places and these partners. Mhmm. And and that and that's what I saw. And it but it wasn't like, you weren't just like weaseling your way in or cold calling, but it was like, hey, you and I can get let's get coffee and just talk about what this could look like.
Speaker 3:I mean,
Speaker 2:I saw you there's a coffee shop right outside the
Speaker 1:It was very yeah.
Speaker 2:Sanctuary. Their welcome center, much more open with the coffee shop there. And I saw you at the coffee shop as much as anything. But not not peeling away, but just doing what you felt like you needed to do there as well as participating. So yours was a little more organic Yeah.
Speaker 2:And not as public, but still very hopefully profound for you.
Speaker 1:It was. Good. It was a really rich time for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's my observation.
Speaker 1:So and we there are exciting things. You know, we continue to build our relationship with French Baptist Union of Canada and the Quebec Evangelical Alliance and, you know, dreaming about what that continued growth looks like. The head of the French Baptist Union got to preach the last session, which I know was super rich for you. You really enjoyed it. So I'll let you talk about that.
Speaker 2:Right. I don't wanna, yeah, put words. But Yeah. Yeah, that's my that's my POV of you, Luke. And and and you and Ashley having this duo Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That's kinda running in different Mhmm. Different tracks. But obviously, we'll come together here for First Baptist in really powerful ways.
Speaker 1:So Yes.
Speaker 2:And I and I affirm, like, I'll be like, hey, what couple of us should go to dinner and you're like, oh man, I want to but I've got and we're like, no, go. That's what we talked about. Go do it. We're make plans. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't it was good. It was really good. Like, hey, we're riding an airport together and you're like, well, meet you there because I'm gonna fit in one more lunch. Yeah. That's why we're there.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's why, you know, at a stewardship level church, that's mean, we, you know, we We we
Speaker 1:get lunch here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exact that's I mean, I'm I'm proud of it. I'm trying to I wanna make sure there's no room for for anyone to think I'm critiquing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. I appreciate that. I don't hear that at all.
Speaker 2:Good. Yeah. That's what I want. Okay. But you're the big boss.
Speaker 2:You kinda jumped this up to
Speaker 1:me. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, for me, the fact that it launched, that was really the big thing. It's now out in the public domain.
Speaker 2:You It's
Speaker 3:now a thing.
Speaker 2:We're a 10 out of 10 on the way to the airport Yeah. Just because it was happening.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. If Dennis Wiles could float, you'd be floating.
Speaker 2:You were floating. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Still still am, really.
Speaker 2:And and and and in some way, it really wouldn't have mattered what happened there.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Just that it was happening. Correct. The good news is what happened there was also very powerful.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. That's what I'd say. So, you know, for me, it was the culmination of a journey that really goes back to 2005. So it was a twenty something year journey for us. We started having conversations with
Speaker 2:This is pretty much like I was born in Birmingham, Alabama.
Speaker 3:Well, it was Texas Baptist Yeah. Leaders because we had had issues in our missional context because in those days, we'd had missionaries who had been forced to sign the Baptist faith and message and it caused a lot of just personal angst and and and ecclesiological and missiological struggle for a lot of our missionaries. So, lot of them came home over it. It it was an interesting time. So, I started making phone calls to pastor friends of mine and, we'd gotten connected to Mike Stroup who was some used to be with the International Mission Board.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. There was a time when the INB, only went to, nations where they were granted permission to go. And and all of the missionaries were organized in mission stations and and the name of the mission station was the name of the country they were in. But as time developed, Ralph Winter and some other missiologists helped us reframe the world that is from a missional perspective. You do have to take geopolitics in consideration.
Speaker 3:Obviously, there are nations and boundaries. We know that. But from a missional context, Ralph Winter and Donald Barrett, there were several guys who started saying, you know, actually the world's a collection of people groups, not really from from a missionary perspective. Not really a collection of nations. So, if you if you have missionaries in Bangladesh, for example, well, the the nation of Bangladesh would only allow you to do work among Hindu Hindus.
Speaker 3:Well, 99% of the people that live in Bangladesh are Muslim. They're not Hindus. So that means that the Bengali, the Bangladesh mission station was there with permission, if you will, but can only work among Hindus, which means you're ignoring 99% of the population.
Speaker 2:Very narrow like philosophy of ministry.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And it
Speaker 3:was it was it was a great thing. We were still the largest sending entity in the world and I I mean, was awesome. However, Keith Parks, who's president of of the board at the time said, okay, we've gotta change our strategy.
Speaker 1:Strategy. So they decided to come up with a new approach
Speaker 3:Parks, that was aimed at these people groups. But that also meant somebody had to be willing to lead that and the missionaries that were working with that entity weren't necessarily going to be in the mission station if you will. Mhmm. And so, they invented a new entity called Cooperative Services International CSI. And Mike Street was named the head of it.
Speaker 3:Well, by the time Mike, left the INB, he had over 500 missionaries working for him. So if if if if if CSI sent a missionary to Bangladesh, they didn't work among the Hindus. They went to work among Muslims. So they couldn't be a part of the Bengali station if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And and and not the I'm not saying anything is secret now because all these governments all know this now. They know there are missionaries working all over.
Speaker 2:We're not
Speaker 3:doubting. No. Yeah. They know it.
Speaker 2:Have to
Speaker 3:change revolutionary back in the day. And so when everything kinda fell apart, Mike ended up at Truett Seminary teaching missions.
Speaker 1:Praise Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. He's a very influential for us. Right. And and Ashley and Jason, obviously.
Speaker 3:Of course. And so he we started talking to Mike, and we began to dream. Well, maybe we need to start some kind of coalition of of like minded. In those days, Baptist is what we said.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So I just started convening meetings and we I mean, we went all over the state of Texas. I went back and looked at my notes the other day. Pastors, we we held pastors meetings at numerous places. And I finally convened a meeting at Love Field with about five pastors, and, and we all agreed, okay. You know, we we do need to do something.
Speaker 3:God's calling us to something. We don't even know what it is, but let's just see. So in the 2006, I sent out a email invite to 55 pastors and mission leaders in the state of Texas, and 53 of them came. And we convened at Love Field. I rented a conference room.
Speaker 3:We had some church members here who gave the money. They're still in our church. And they we rented a a conference room and we had a day long meeting with me and Mike Stroup and Cindy. And we proposed the launching of some type of a network to where we could kinda begin to cooperate together and do the kinds of things that Ascent Now was doing. Back then we didn't know what to call it.
Speaker 3:We weren't even sure what it was. Mhmm. Because, you know, we're a bunch of denominational people so we don't know what we're doing. So but we pitched an idea. Meanwhile, on the side, Texas Baptist had already started an entity called World Connects that nobody really knew what it was.
Speaker 3:So it was a little bit of struggle. There's a lot of conversations around table. We met all day and and numerous pastors spoke, stroops up at the board drawing things out. I'm up there drawing things out. What about this?
Speaker 3:What about that? And finally, after the end of the day, and basically, I just said, man, I'm so glad y'all are all here. Let's let's do this, you know. And so if you wanna be in, come join us. And so, two pastors out of the 53 leaders joined us, Mike Fritcher and Jerry Carlisle.
Speaker 3:Jerry was pastor first at Plano back then and Mike Fritcher at Cottonwood in Dublin.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Good guys. Good men.
Speaker 3:And so we launched in December '6 what we called Global Connection Partnership Network.
Speaker 2:For some of our people listening, GCPN.
Speaker 3:GCPN. And they would
Speaker 2:be familiar with that. Right.
Speaker 3:So and to us, this was going to be this place to house our missional interests, investments, not a new denomination, not the I n b, not not going to really send missionaries, bless and affirm churches to do what churches feel called to do. So we put that into the DNA of that organization. So this is the twentieth anniversary of GCPN this year. It's now called Restore Hope. And so, well over time, we had numerous conversations with people.
Speaker 3:We had along the way other denominations ask, can we send, will you help us send our people to the field who and they weren't Baptist. So that was the first thing we had to realize that, oh my goodness, this really is a lot broader than us, you know. So so, well, fast forward to ten years ago and we have another conversation that includes Virginia Baptist this time Mhmm. When we met in Belmont. And and my eyes got really open then because then I realized, woah, there's there are actually more people who are interested in something like this.
Speaker 3:Broader than Restore Hope, obviously. But but the genesis of it goes back twenty something years for for me and Cindy. So I'm sitting there at Ascent this year and all that is
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I'm just watching all of it.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Thanking God that, I just had a teeny tiny role in being a part of watching something be born that I believe is going to be instrumental in re evangelizing North America. And I believe allowing the North American church to take its appropriate seat at the global table in a posture of humility, not in a posture of authority, which unfortunately has characterized us in the past. That's one of the unique things about a sense. Very humble. And you feel that.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Yes. You feel it when
Speaker 3:you just walk in the room. It's just there's no superiority. It's a shared journey and there's just a spirit of authenticity and humility. Nobody wants to own anything. Everybody has just brought what they have and shared it with everybody else.
Speaker 3:And if you don't wanna use it, that's fine. We're gonna use whatever we bring. We're using this but you don't have to use it. Mhmm. My goodness.
Speaker 3:I didn't even know that right there existed. Mhmm. Well, I'm gonna use that. You know? Can can we use that?
Speaker 3:I didn't even know you could do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, like, example, the curriculum, our bible study classes used in November was published by a formerly Methodist sending agency Exactly. That we discovered at Ascent.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:That we would have
Speaker 1:We would have never
Speaker 2:known that existed.
Speaker 3:Why would we?
Speaker 2:I mean, I guess we could say we just hadn't Right. Stumbled upon
Speaker 3:But why would we? So I'm I'm sitting there You told
Speaker 2:me five years ago that Canadian Baptist Ministries would be one of our strongest Yes. Why would it be? Kinships.
Speaker 3:Why would it be? Well, you think about this particular meeting.
Speaker 2:Out because they're ten years ahead of us.
Speaker 3:Least ten years ahead of us and can we can learn we can learn.
Speaker 2:It's a they have a road map. Yeah. And so that it's one for one, but there's more to learn there than maybe anywhere else.
Speaker 3:Yeah. The shared learning and shared humility and and shared heart of a of a group of people who, you know, people have already started asking questions. I've already gotten a couple. Okay. This is another progressive movement.
Speaker 3:Y'all y'all are centrist, which means you don't believe anything, which which obviously is is is a statement made in ignorance and somewhat, I would say, arrogance. Yeah. Because you you you it's
Speaker 2:Likely from people that we can't cooperate with.
Speaker 3:No. It's easy just a lot
Speaker 2:of other bad things that would come with that.
Speaker 3:I I believe that the higher the level of ignorance, the more definitive you usually make declarations. Let me say that one
Speaker 2:more time for those that missed it.
Speaker 3:I think there's a correlation.
Speaker 2:The higher the level of
Speaker 3:ignorance, the higher the level usually of definitive statements you can make. If you make definitive statements that are rooted in truth, that's one thing. But I feel like you say them a lot more loudly when they're rooted in ignorance because you have to. Okay. Well, that was I don't have any subject to them.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us this week.
Speaker 3:No. No. I think we've covered it now.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. Chew on that.
Speaker 3:Because if you're stating them in truth, you don't have to shout them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you can do it humbly.
Speaker 3:The truth is powerful enough. But if you're stating them in ignorance, you have to keep saying them over and over and over. You do. And and and it for some reason, and I've been guilty of this on occasion, if you say them more loudly, then somehow you think it makes them truer, which it really just doesn't. So we are I was reading an article this morning early.
Speaker 3:Christianity Today's newest publication has come out. And I've gotten to where I actually like reading the print version, a little bit old school. And so It's a Warning magazine. Yeah. Marvin Alasky, who's longtime writer for Christianity Today.
Speaker 2:Oh, I read it. Yeah. Ryan showed it to me last night.
Speaker 3:Did he?
Speaker 2:It's on the front cover almost.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, he talks about we are
Speaker 2:He just made some statement.
Speaker 3:Theologically centrist. We believe in the historic orthodox doctrines of the faith. I was reading it. I just underlined it. In fact, I'm sending it to our ascent council.
Speaker 2:He's well, I don't mean to put words in your mouth. I mean, but the line Ryan showed me, basically, we don't affirm LGBTQ theology and we have never published anything affirming
Speaker 3:of
Speaker 2:it.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's what Ryan said. Woah. Look at this. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Know? Ryan
Speaker 2:Ryan also said, man, appreciated he has great cover art. And, like, 10 later, was like, check this out. Yes. That's right.
Speaker 3:The cover art is awesome.
Speaker 2:This It's all yeah. It is. It is. It's a it's a whole I'm not gotha scene. Anyway
Speaker 3:But when I read that little excerpt, we're in a little email thread right now of all the council members. And, of course, it's all you know, we're just glowing, thanking god, blessing each other
Speaker 2:I bet.
Speaker 3:Sharing the joy.
Speaker 2:I would say I wanna read over look over the shoulder,
Speaker 3:but Yeah. I keep just writing in welcome to ascent. That's what I keep saying. No way. I I heard you say that before.
Speaker 2:Is that a new
Speaker 3:It's just finally lost. Wake up with that? But when I read that, I thought, yeah. And that's that's who we are. We're we're orthodox in our faith.
Speaker 3:We're an uncompromising about that, and we're happy about it. And so we we don't have to wave that in front of everybody because our mission to me represents that.
Speaker 2:One thing Ashley said yesterday, she was trying to explain a set to the staff, not defensively. Brad asked her
Speaker 3:to Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Was also how refreshing it is for she and I to walk into rooms and not have to wonder if we're accepted or not Yeah. Just because we're women.
Speaker 3:Yeah. If you're a minister and I love one of the questions. You know, Beth Moore has grown quite a bit. I love Beth. And when she was asked by someone, what would you tell a young woman being called to ministry?
Speaker 3:And Beth said, well, at this point in my life, would tell them the same thing I would tell a young man being called in ministry. The calling to ministry is fill in the blank, which is where Ascent is. It's just we're honoring what God is doing, blessing it, affirming it, and it's coming out of the churches. So, we were thrilled. I'm thrilled.
Speaker 3:I'm excited. I'm grateful. And and and now, what I love about it is, it's now in the public domain. You can now visit it. You can come see it.
Speaker 3:You can attend.
Speaker 2:Open. It's open for
Speaker 3:It's no longer the invitation only meetings, which we've had forever. It's not just this, you know, group of 20 people that are meeting all over North America all the time. Everybody's wondering, what y'all doing? You know? Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And couple of church members have asked me that in the past, you know, because I mean, I've been to Waco, been to Canada, I've been to Virginia. And I get to
Speaker 1:that because Yeah. There are times I think we get asked, well, what's it gonna do or why is it feel like it's taking so long? You know, you're a better church historian than I am. But I don't think in history there's ever been a intercontinental, multilingual, multicultural, multidenominational shared movement before that I
Speaker 3:can think of. Not at this level. To me, I'm I'm I'm an
Speaker 2:the interdenominational.
Speaker 1:The interdenominational.
Speaker 2:Name that. If you took that out, I could probably name something. Right?
Speaker 1:But you don't build that overnight You don't. In a week That's right. In a month or in a even a decade.
Speaker 3:We've had to have trust. You know, like, for example, two let's say, three years ago, we were having a meeting. I think it was three years ago. And and still, it's just this group of 20 people. Well, we invited a a member, a a person to come just to see it it it's kind of interesting because you got this the the executive board of the Virginia Baptist have agreed to let us lead a cent, but they own it right now.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Someone has to kinda be their They own
Speaker 3:it legally. Yeah. But they're still letting up. They've sanctioned us. So we decided Great model.
Speaker 3:It really is.
Speaker 2:That's a side note.
Speaker 3:So we've decided, well, let's invite a few people to our actual council meetings. They can't vote but we need to know if this is something they might be interested in because they're friendly to us. Well, we did that. One of them came representing a particular denomination. So it so they asked me to do just a quick summary of how we got to where we are.
Speaker 3:So I do it. We go to the break and he pulls me aside and he said, I'm just to be honest, I'm in shock right now. And, I said, okay. Really? He said, yeah.
Speaker 3:Back to what you just said. And I'm thinking, what did I just say? You know, the guy's I've just met him. Know. And Bakker's gonna kill me because he's the guy's probably gonna leave in protest.
Speaker 3:I don't know what I said.
Speaker 2:Get this it's in
Speaker 3:it's in in it's it's it's And he said, I met with my elders and the leaders of our whole movement, and they told me I couldn't come to this meeting because the chair of it is a Southern Baptist pastor. He said, but I told them, well, I don't know him, but I know Chris Packard. Mhmm. And Chris has invited me so I'm going. And he said, and they met with me.
Speaker 3:They kept saying, you can't go. Well, you can go but we are not gonna be part of a movement that's being led by a Southern Baptist pastor. It's just not gonna happen. So, if you wanna go, go. It's going to be a waste of time.
Speaker 3:I don't know why in that presentation that day that I happened to talk about my Anabaptist connections to doctor Eastep, but I told a little bit of my personal story. He was my major professor in seminary, and he wrote the landmark book, the Anabaptist story that many read still in their seminaries. And he said, you are a PhD student of doctor William e Step. You just said that. And I said Yeah.
Speaker 3:I know that. And he said, I cannot wait to go back to my people who come out of that tradition to tell them, you're gonna have to just meet Dennis. In other words, this is this is you have made references and inferences about something, and he said this, that you're just ignorant of. You're you're just ignorant. Even know.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You wouldn't have even known.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's It's
Speaker 2:like the biggest compliment.
Speaker 3:Yes. But Right. You just had
Speaker 2:a context. Exactly.
Speaker 3:And so, anyway, well You don't know how ignorant you are. That's right. So they started coming. Well and I had no idea. I didn't even know No.
Speaker 3:This is to be honest with you. Right? And so, anyway Yeah. The whole same That has been a cent to me. It's that just I got hooked into the
Speaker 1:charismatic prayer room team this week. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:Was it I mean, I think Yes.
Speaker 3:Okay. I've never been in a prayer room in my life until this week this last week
Speaker 2:Period.
Speaker 3:Where people pray over people in tongues.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:I've never done that. In tongues. I'm open to the experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm open to yet.
Speaker 2:Well, you might not have needed it like this guy.
Speaker 3:This huge prayer team. I say he not that he but, I mean, pretty significant, I would say, prayer team. And we brought people in there. And one of them in particular when he came out, he told me, he said, okay, I've never been prayed over in He's crying while this lady is praying over him. I stand there next to him.
Speaker 1:Oh, spirit of God is in the with those people. Yes. And I
Speaker 3:I don't even know what to
Speaker 2:do. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So he we come out. I kept he had his eyes closed. I kept my eyes open because I'm thinking, what? Yeah. Never oh, I never
Speaker 2:Yeah. You want all the senses
Speaker 3:engaged in this born from Birmingham, Alabama, seriously. Yeah. The charismatics
Speaker 1:who are, like, half Anglican, half Methodist, half American Baptist. Yes. Well, that's not two fractions. Anglicans, American Baptist, Methodists, Pentecostals are running a parable.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Let's let that blow
Speaker 3:your mind. Of God
Speaker 2:is in mainline old school denomination.
Speaker 3:The spirit of God is in this room. Mhmm. People are weeping. Mhmm. You okay?
Speaker 2:This. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm telling you. And I so we go out and he said, what just happened? He said, I've I've never been he said, I'm a strict Baptist. And, he said, I've never been prayed over in tongues. He said, I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 3:He said, so I just I just opened my hands and closed my eyes. I said, I think that's what we were supposed to do. Mhmm. You know? It's a great snapshot.
Speaker 1:Selfie posture. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so It's
Speaker 2:a great snapshot when we try to I mean, at some point, we're gonna come up with a elevator pitch for a cent.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But if you can listen to a forty minute podcast, that helps too.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It was powerful. And it and it's it it to me is a it's the culmination, not just for me. I looked at people like John Upton Oh my god. Legendary leader in our family, who has given his whole life to innovative approaches to ministry.
Speaker 3:And he's when I grew up, I wanna be like him. I just I just watched him as well. When it was over, some of us old war horses, guess, we came down front, Balcombe and pastor at Columbia Baptist there in Falls Church and John and Wayne facing several of us. And we all just kinda looked at each other and the next thing you know, we're we're just hugging because we don't we don't have anything to say. That there's nothing to say.
Speaker 3:It it has all just been said.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And, you know, it was just a moment that I'll never forget. You know, just standing there with those guys. I've been in umpteen meetings with those people. And others who came up who were part of it as well started coming. Well, now we're getting we're on the email train now and it's like, wow.
Speaker 3:This this was just, humbling. We're grateful to the Lord. So, you know, then now the next question is now what? Well, we've got alliances that are forming. We've we've got things that we're mobilizing.
Speaker 3:I don't know when we'll have another one of these summit meetings. Chris is of the Chris Bakrt, the lead the leader is of the mind that should only happen every other year. And and we're looking at models in the past, you know, the old train old Baptist convention used to meet every three years. We don't wanna get forced into a pattern. We also don't wanna lose the fellowship.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. But one of ways we keep that alive is by keeping these networks, you know, that are that have formed alive and communicative. And, and so, and then at some point, we hand it off to younger leaders. No. I don't need to be the chair of it from now on.
Speaker 3:You know, I I I did my part, but somebody else can take it. And so we're we're just gonna have to figure all of that out. But I'm but I'm I'm happy to figure it out. And then I get to come back home in my church, you know, I brought the plaque with me today, to bring to the church. We got a plaque for being a founding church.
Speaker 3:I'm I'm really proud of that in the right sense. I'm I'm proud that First Baptist Arlington, this very historic, traditional church that's steeped in BGCT history.
Speaker 2:In the heart of Texas.
Speaker 3:Yes. Who we are is now a part of one of the most innovative, I think, collectives and movements that I've seen in my ministry.
Speaker 1:Jesus oriented, spirit filled people. Just proud for my people, and
Speaker 3:I can't wait for them more of them to know more about it.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of our
Speaker 3:tasks.
Speaker 1:Which will take a little crew, yeah, to one of our partners in September.
Speaker 3:Yeah. One of my prayers is going to be I told the folks at the at the meeting, I believe one day, years from now, people are going to say, hey. Were you were you at that meeting in Virginia in the 2026? And I'm gonna go, yes. What was it like?
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness. You're not gonna believe what it was like. That's that's what I'm already in business.
Speaker 2:I love it. Well, two things. One, we are sponsored by First Baptist Arlington. We are.
Speaker 3:We have
Speaker 2:spring break. We're on even now.
Speaker 3:Spring break.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Whatever.
Speaker 3:What are
Speaker 1:doing in Southern City right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah. There are people active in ministry right now. Our youth college was last week.
Speaker 3:They did
Speaker 2:a great job. Mhmm. I'm trying to think
Speaker 1:No midweek this week.
Speaker 3:We've got
Speaker 2:through some of the big, like, conference men's conferences, women's things, faith at home. So I'm actually not sure what to really I mean, obviously No
Speaker 1:midweek this week.
Speaker 2:Easter Sunday is gonna pop up.
Speaker 1:Good Friday is coming.
Speaker 3:Then Easter
Speaker 1:and tide or Easter.
Speaker 2:So, I mean, do circle the calendar for April. That's Easter weekend. That's that's Good Friday. And but Yeah. We're we're when we pop up after spring break, it's we're really gonna be
Speaker 3:facing Register for camp.
Speaker 1:Camp registration's open for Connect Care
Speaker 2:and and home. And then there's Kinder Bible School for, like, k
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Pre k k. Mhmm. So really
Speaker 1:Lot happening. Quite Summer registrations are open.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's good way to put that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:A lot of
Speaker 2:stuff. I wanna look. You kinda mentioned this. I wanna maybe end with this. Do I have permission?
Speaker 2:We didn't talk about the sermon at all.
Speaker 3:You know, but you you can you can confess.
Speaker 2:Okay. Let me confess and then I'll have Luke end with
Speaker 3:I think you should confess just real succinctly and not even give context. Just say
Speaker 2:Last night
Speaker 3:Oh, no. I thought you said too much? I was listening to the sermon and just fell dead asleep.
Speaker 2:I did. I slept hard. So But I guess the context would be, I I was ready for bed and in my bed last night. It did. It put me to sleep.
Speaker 2:No. Life put me to sleep,
Speaker 3:but the sermon was the yeah. And, know
Speaker 2:I was I was feeling counting sheep. Was feeling it, the the good shepherds. But I was gonna say, Luke kinda mentioned this. It is this, how does our church get more exposed? Our people, not just a few staff Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Get more exposed to the ascent movement. And one of the most tangible ways is that Luke is partnering to lead our people to one of our most trusted partners in Montreal.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So in it'll be the it won't be a full week. We're doing a half week tour. It'll be a learning tour that we'll actually share with a couple of other churches. One is from Texas.
Speaker 1:One is from Virginia.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But that cross pollination is helpful as well.
Speaker 1:All the centuries.
Speaker 2:That's not a negative. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I will be leading kind of a learning I'll be facilitating a learning tour in Montreal. So, we won't have a project that we're doing, but it's gonna be some exposure to here are the ways that the French Baptist Union and Quebec Evangelical Alliance are working on ministering in the city of Montreal. So, it'll be a half week. I'll be there the whole week. Just working with another group on the front end, but it'll be sometime on the half week of September 14.
Speaker 2:So when we say, like, Canadian Baptists are ahead of us, I mean, if you're if you're the average person in the pew, which hopefully, those listening none of y'all are average, I mean, the faces I'm looking at, but an invested lay person that's here. Mhmm. The Canadian Baptists have faced what our society in America is facing now. They have faced a version of that fifteen Twenty years twenty, ten years ago. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And have had to adapt their church, churches, their worldview to catch up with that. And so it's very very valuable for us to go talk to them, listen to them, bless them with our resources and then come back with that world view and lens so that we can minister into. Like they they've been through it, they're waving the flag, they're inviting us, they wanna come help us be equipped for what they have kind of fought through Mhmm. And so that there's a lot of value in it and if you're just curious about maybe being more equipped to to live in this culture that was emerging here, go visit with them.
Speaker 1:Come with
Speaker 2:us. So it's not just
Speaker 3:a trip. It is that polycentric approach
Speaker 2:Yep. Very much.
Speaker 3:To think about that we go there. So often when we think of mission trips, historically in the West, what we thought is, well, we're going to help them.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And and and we should help them because we know more than they do. Yep. Right? Yep. That's well, that's the thing.
Speaker 3:We're going. I'm sorry for y'all. I'm sorry that we're we're gonna have to go home and leave y'all with this but, you know, you're welcome. That that kinda arrogant posture and and and I don't wanna be too critical of it because I get it.
Speaker 1:I've done it. Great things that come
Speaker 3:out here. We have done some incredible things. Of course, god has used us. And I'm talking about the the western church. He has.
Speaker 3:Of course, he has. But but it's come with that growing sense of we're the ones that really kinda have the copyright to the gospel. So I'm sitting in a in a meeting with the president of the Arab Baptist Theological Seminary in Beirut, Lebanon at Ascent.
Speaker 2:Which turns out.
Speaker 3:So let's just go ahead and let that sink in for a second. He's he's he lives in Beirut, Lebanon right now. He's made it home safely. Good. We prayed over him, because he told us when he was getting ready to fly home, he said, I'm you know, the route home flight wise is one thing.
Speaker 3:He said, the most dangerous part will be when I get in my car and try to drive home. Yeah. So he's that's where he lives, where his family is. Before we have our meeting, I'm taking him to meet someone at Ascent. He says, well, I've just talked to my wife and I've checked on the bomb shelter and make sure we've got these supplies and we've got all these people.
Speaker 3:I mean, he is in this list of things that his wife is taking care of while he's with me Mhmm. Drinking a cup of coffee in Virginia. And I'm thinking, well, let me tell you what I had to do. Okay.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Well, I didn't have to do anything.
Speaker 2:Y'all aren't living the
Speaker 3:same Let's be honest. Anyway, so we're sitting there talking, and he's telling me about how they are hosting. And right now, the the seminary has had to disperse its students. So they're letting this the seminary be a place of refuge for people. There's an article in the Baptist Standard about it this week, housing refugees from all bombing that's taking place in Lebanon.
Speaker 3:And and he's talking to me about partnerships, and I'm thinking to myself, well, if we were at some point when the dust settles, send a team to the Arab Baptist Seminary to help with some. Do you honestly think we're going to go there and teach them anything? These people, we would go there to be learned to to learn To be learners. And and and just
Speaker 2:And listen, maybe.
Speaker 3:I mean trash. I don't know what we would do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. If anything, like a safe landing place Yes.
Speaker 3:And then bring that back home
Speaker 2:How do we bless?
Speaker 3:To figure out how to apply what we've learned here. That's what's happened. That's what's flipped in
Speaker 2:this part
Speaker 3:You know?
Speaker 2:From my outside POV to to you missiologists is my, awareness is never higher of how much resource we have.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:I mean, I I hate to talk about it so crassly, but if I might, I would guess that the Lebanese I mean, we could build a building for them with the with the percentage of resources here that it would take them
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Years. Maybe impossibly. Years. Yes. And we need to be you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. The gospel is meant to be given away. Mean, we we give ourselves away. So we need to recognize our wealth Mhmm. And what we can do in that reciprocal relationship.
Speaker 2:Exactly. We don't need to just write checks. It doesn't form us. Well, it can. Let me say that.
Speaker 2:That's that's shallow. It can.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But we need to real, like, I mean, just for me and Ryan, we are rich. Mhmm. Worldwide. Period. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And we need to steward that globally
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:With these people.
Speaker 3:And the cool is that right now to me there's this merger of what it used to be like and what it actually is now. And the good from what it used to be like is blessing and affirming how it is now. So in that conversation with Wissam, he had a lady with him who I'd never met before. I've met Wissam before. She's Lebanese.
Speaker 3:She's now living here in The US but she has lived her entire life in Lebanon and been a part of this Baptist ministry her whole life.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Well, the legendary missionary who went to Lebanon is Finley Graham. He and his wife. He wrote
Speaker 2:a hero to him.
Speaker 3:Hero. I met Finley Graham in seminary years ago. Small man, powerful speaker, just incredible leader, risked his life his life numerous times in Lebanon. The Lebanese Christians love Finlay Graham. I'm just telling you.
Speaker 3:When you mention his name, they stop. They literally do. She had no idea that I knew him. So we're talking and she's sitting in the room while we're getting ready for this meeting. And I just said, well, we're trying to figure out our connection to Lebanon.
Speaker 3:I don't know what it's going to be. It's interesting to me. It's kinda gone through It keeps It just keeps happening. And I said, so we're going to be involved there. And Wassam said, yeah.
Speaker 3:I know. We And the lady is just sitting there listening. And I said, well, actually, to be honest with you, there's a connection that we have that dates back way yonder before this. And and she kinda turned her head. I said, because Finley Graham's granddaughter is a member of our church.
Speaker 3:And she just went, Finley Graham's granddaughter? You know Finley Graham and his family? I said, well, actually, I met Finley Graham. I'm in now. I'm in.
Speaker 3:It's like and then she goes on to say, do you know what Finley Graham has done for my country? Do you know what he's done for my family? Mhmm. Do you know how many of us are going to heaven because of Finley Graham?
Speaker 2:I told Kara Yeah. The great granddaughter, Kara Johnson
Speaker 1:Who'll be doing her internship here this summer.
Speaker 2:Who has a call to ministry and we're fanning that flame because she's great. Well, I told her something about I mean, not that story but about how just there's more affinity for Lebanon than ever right now in our midst and she just kinda this is like insider. She's just like, there's not that many people, Katie. It's not that big of a deal. And I'm like, it is a big deal.
Speaker 2:You're just being like, that's the Jonathan way.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:They don't they don't need much.
Speaker 3:I just love that but I'm thinking, okay. When you think about missions, going to Quebec Yeah. One of the reasons we're going is so we can get better at doing it here. But we also bless as we go. Absolutely.
Speaker 3:We can bless them. But the blessings But in the pasture community.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 2:Yeah. They will be blessed by y'all going. Yeah. No doubt. It's just gonna look different.
Speaker 1:For our church, you know, Rafael Enzenberger tells a story of the church he's planted and how he's reached the person who's over the co working space where he offices. Mhmm. Well, the church plant that he's referencing referencing was was funded by our
Speaker 3:church. Yep. Which is awesome.
Speaker 1:And so, there's an active church plant that's reaching new people with the gospel in Downtown Montreal. It doesn't look anything like what you think a traditional church service looks like. Right. But, they're reaching people, they're discipling people. And so, yeah, we've gone and we've learned but we've also it's a beautiful reciprocal relationship and that's that's the heart of Ascent
Speaker 3:right Yep. So, yeah. But Jesus is the good shepherd.
Speaker 1:Jesus is the good shepherd but we have a meeting. We do.
Speaker 3:Jesus is the good shepherd.
Speaker 2:How about y'all just read
Speaker 3:Read about it in John 10.
Speaker 1:What if
Speaker 2:you just go straight to John 10? That's right. Read it and be put back to Psalm 23 and we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to the Tell Me More podcast today. You can subscribe to this podcast on your app of choice, or you can visit us at fbca.org to find
Speaker 3:out more
Speaker 2:information about podcast and our church. Thanks for listening. Have a good day.