Ep. 198 - Grace for Everyone!
On this episode of Tell Me More, Tanner Watson joins doctor Dennis Wiles and I as we talk about camp at First Baptist Arlington and how do you discern your spiritual giftedness in light of Ephesians chapter four. We hope it's a great episode for you, and we're excited for what's to come. Okay. Well, we're here for Tell Me More. And as you can see this, if you're watching, it's not Katie.
Speaker 1:No. If you're listening, that doesn't sound like Katie. No. No, it doesn't. Who is
Speaker 2:it? It's Tanner y'all. We're back up in this. We're so excited to be here. It's always a blast to be
Speaker 3:on the
Speaker 2:Tell Me More podcast.
Speaker 1:We also have you doctor Wiles.
Speaker 3:I'm happy to be here too. I'm glad to be here with like I said already to y'all this morning, I'm here with these two young theologians. I'm I'm honored.
Speaker 1:High praise. Truett seminary. Yeah. Truett Seminary.
Speaker 3:Truett grads, actually.
Speaker 1:Yes. Which is pretty standard, actually, because
Speaker 3:I was
Speaker 1:gonna say that's true. I'm always with you Truett
Speaker 3:grads, aren't I? And y'all are on the increase.
Speaker 1:It's everywhere I look for Truett grads, which is awesome. Tribe increase.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's really good. In fact, that's where Katie is today.
Speaker 1:It is. That's That's right.
Speaker 3:She said
Speaker 1:Truett. Doing a retreat with the Junior Network which is a group of women from the Ascent Movement. So they're high level women ministry leaders who have gathered together to think give each other space to rest, ideas, camaraderie, all the
Speaker 3:Ideas so that's where about ministry. Kate and Ashley are
Speaker 1:both there.
Speaker 3:Two of ours are a part of that network and we're proud of them. We are. Super exciting. But I'm proud of y'all as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3:Just grateful for y'all and all that y'all bring here. Thank you for your theological contributions here, both of you.
Speaker 2:I would venture to guess that Katie's GPA at Truett was better than mine, mine but but a Tru grad nonetheless. She
Speaker 1:was valedictorian of her high school,
Speaker 2:wasn't she?
Speaker 3:She was. And the prom queen. Yeah. Prom queen. Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Finally got her tiara. Gary Steele had to Thank you, spring for it. Still in her office which is awesome.
Speaker 2:Oh. Yeah. Thank you to our faithful listeners.
Speaker 3:And prom was on the prom was this past weekend for at least for my grandson. A lot
Speaker 1:of students. Students.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was a big weekend here at FBCA. Tell us all about it, Tanner. One of our not only did a bunch of our high school students prom but we also celebrated our seniors.
Speaker 3:We
Speaker 2:did. So some of them were falling asleep actively, during their senior recognition.
Speaker 3:My recognition brochure right here.
Speaker 2:We had a great crop of seniors graduate. We'll miss them lot.
Speaker 1:Was someone's grandson?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, it was pretty awesome. But tell me this, Tanner. So Joshua, our grandson, he was up in Illinois this last week because his brother, his older brother, was graduating from boot camp in the navy. So Cindy was up there. The whole family was there, but I couldn't go.
Speaker 3:So Joshua calls me and says, can you go by Men's Warehouse and pick up my tux for prom? So I said, yeah. And I said, who so who are you taking to prom? And he said, I'm not taking anybody to prom. I said, so you don't have a date to the prom?
Speaker 3:No, sir. And you've rented a tuxedo to go to the prom. You have no date. He said, yeah. So I'm just going with my buddies.
Speaker 3:Is that kind of a thing now, Tell When I was coming along, you would not dare go to prom without a date. We would have dogged you to no end.
Speaker 2:So I
Speaker 3:at think the prom without The a
Speaker 2:group thing is a big thing now. Going as a group.
Speaker 3:I had no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah and it's become like I guess when I was in high school we did project graduation but now they do or maybe they've always done this but after prom. So prom is a big deal but then the after prom is just as much of a big deal.
Speaker 3:So And you don't have to have a date to get in.
Speaker 1:That's You
Speaker 2:don't have to have a date to
Speaker 1:get in. I
Speaker 2:would say it's probably close to fifty fifty
Speaker 3:That's kinda what he and
Speaker 2:students that just go as groups. Yeah. And it's honestly, you know, if you experience any kind of social anxiety, it's not a bad gig to go ahead and like gather your friends and just go as a group to something.
Speaker 3:You can
Speaker 2:stay safe that way too.
Speaker 3:Yeah. They had, now a couple of guys had dates, so they all came to our house. I wasn't there. I was I was doing my wedding. But I saw the photos, and so you had, a couple of guys had dates, several of them didn't.
Speaker 3:They all and they all went together, hung out together. They did pretty much everything together. Mhmm. There you go. Interesting.
Speaker 3:So, yeah.
Speaker 1:There it is.
Speaker 2:I actually did not have a date to my senior prom. I went into groups.
Speaker 3:Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to bring it up. Sorry.
Speaker 1:Somewhere between My age and Tanner's age is when the group thing became a thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Because y'all still Oh yeah. You still had a date. Right?
Speaker 1:You wouldn't go to prom without a date.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That was I was about to say.
Speaker 2:Well I was in a one act play the same night as prom. I wasn't in it. I I did sound for it.
Speaker 1:Oh okay.
Speaker 2:So we kind of went as a theater troupe like Yeah. To prom to get there.
Speaker 3:That's great. There we go. And then the the y'all did a great job on recognizing the
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. That's so fun.
Speaker 1:It's special.
Speaker 3:Very sweet.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's painful. We just love these kiddos and you know it takes the whole church to rear them and send So them it's fun not only to celebrate them for what they've accomplished but celebrate the journey, that First Baptist Arlington has with these students along the way.
Speaker 3:Several of them, I remember when they were born, their parents. And so that's pretty cool for me to, you know, to be standing there thinking, saying, when they walk across, to let them know Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I remember when
Speaker 3:you were born. I remember you being dedicated here. And now here we are.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. And it's a testament to what's happening here in like First Baptist Yeah. Arlington. Just the generations of families that stick around because they, have experienced growth in their faith and wanna be a
Speaker 1:part of
Speaker 2:this community. A lot of these students, were born right around or after the iPhone was first introduced.
Speaker 3:And there
Speaker 2:you I think all three of us have some version
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:Much newer version of
Speaker 1:the iPhone. Than them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was great though. It was really sweet. It did was a great job. Done a great job just with them in general.
Speaker 3:And then we're going to camp. We are.
Speaker 2:Going to camp.
Speaker 1:So connect camp first?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we're recording this on a Tuesday. Next Wednesday, the truck goes down to camp. I think that's the twenty sixth.
Speaker 1:That sounds right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then the twenty seventh connect camp starts. It goes through the first.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So that's our children's ministry in their camp.
Speaker 1:We have a conversation in my house about connect camp every single day.
Speaker 2:That means the
Speaker 1:Evelyn's stare
Speaker 3:is She's going to camp.
Speaker 1:So excited.
Speaker 2:It's an awesome time. They do And such a good then June 1 we will trade places. The connect camp people will leave and encounter week will descend on Riverbend. We'll spend the first through the fifth out there. We have Robert White, pastor Robert White who pastors a church Bedford I believe.
Speaker 2:He's gonna be our camp speaker and Connect Camp has the illustrious the right Reverend Doctor Dennis Wiles as their camp speaker.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:There you go. DBU Chapel Worship is leading us in worship Wow. While we're at Encounter Week.
Speaker 3:They are so good, aren't they?
Speaker 2:I've said, I'll put it this way. I've been to the mountaintop worship experiences. I've been to the huge venues. I've been to the small venues. They're super intimate.
Speaker 2:And I don't know if I've ever encountered a more worshipful worship team that is just earnestly seeking what the Lord wills in every moment of a worship set like I have sitting in Pilgrim Chapel at DBU during a chapel service.
Speaker 3:I've heard it's incredible. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Their chapel worship band is awesome and we are so incredibly excited for them.
Speaker 1:That's so good. What are some of the, you know, obviously you're working with encounter week but what are some of the ways we can be praying for you all as a church as you guys, you know our staff members, our volunteers, everyone gets ready for connect camp and encounter week?
Speaker 2:I would say more than anything our health right now just making sure we have we have to remind ourselves to eat lunch every day sometimes as we get closer because it just gets so busy. But just getting enough sleep, drinking enough water, getting and staying healthy, not just leading up to camp because it is so busy right now but also while we're at camp. We, you know, if I lose my voice on the drive home on Friday, that's fine. But I would like to keep my voice through that whole week. So health and then I think some of the key planning stuff, you know, we're just putting together cabins.
Speaker 2:We wanna make sure and equip our family groups and our cabins and everything across the board for success so that we I guess tear down any barriers possible for these campers to commune with their creator. We wanna make it as easy as possible, create the most authentic environments possible so that these campers can have really cool and authentic experiences both individually with their creator and collectively as a community. And then finally, the weather. Yeah. It's early.
Speaker 2:It's early every year and we're still coming off of spring showers. And we're not afraid of rain, we are afraid of lightning. So, part of keeping camp safe is just you know, one, we don't want weather events but two, making sure that we navigate those weather events well. So we're praying against lightning specifically. Which
Speaker 3:can happen there as it last year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And what has been interesting as you know, the state has come up with a bunch new laws surrounding camps. We have been so pleased with the way Riverbend has handled it all. Brad Lambert, the executive director down
Speaker 3:Just close. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God. He goes He did this before anything new came up. But every year, he goes back to the laws and just reads them and make sure that Riverbend is up to date, exceeding everything. And when a lot of these new laws landed, Riverbend was already either meeting or exceeding most of them. They've got their license, they're doing a great job making sure camp is up and ready and safe for not just us at Connected Camping and Counter Week, but all summer long.
Speaker 2:So we're really excited. I It's a beautiful partnership we've built with them for the last over fifty years. And we loved going back to. Riverbend's technically a mountain if you look at Google Maps. We loved going back to the mountain.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, with all that happened obviously last year in camps, you know, in Texas, it's a I mean, it is something to think about the safety of these children. You know, for us there, the good news is it's so high above the river. Mhmm. You know, there's just no Yeah. It's just not going to flood.
Speaker 3:The lightning would be the thing that would be the challenge for us. Or, you know, just Yeah. Kids having accidents. But I mean, there's not gonna be a flood there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, it's so good to know that we have such an established partnership with a camp that takes so seriously the safety and care of children, We're students and blessed. We are. So I'm gonna recap.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're praying for health Health. Final plans
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Safety, weather.
Speaker 2:Yes. All of it.
Speaker 3:Okay. Yeah. Alright. Awesome. Then the kids the children go first.
Speaker 3:It's funny to be there for both camps. For me, it's just interesting.
Speaker 1:It's a different environment. Oh my
Speaker 3:goodness. Because the the first one is, you you have you have little ones. It's their first time. So it's just so sweet, you know, little homesick kids and you end up having to, you know, they'll come up to me.
Speaker 1:Evelyn will either be homesick or a party animal and I just don't know how it's gonna go.
Speaker 3:You know, well, they'll stop. If they're ours, they'll stop me sometimes in my golf cart or whatever and say, you know, doctor Wiles, will you call my mom? Or, you know, they're just they're just so sweet. And so it's just such a precious time for me, and it gives me a chance to to do, you know, to do things I can't do here where you've got them all together in one place, and it's a very relaxed setting. And you see them every day, all along the day, so it has it's a chance for me to really get to know them better.
Speaker 3:And then when they leave, the youth show up, and it's just such a different atmosphere.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. With with
Speaker 3:the youth. Some of them are too cool for school. You know, they just wanna they'll just give me a head nod when I drive by my golf cart. You know, they don't usually come up crying asking me to call their parents.
Speaker 1:And That's a good thing.
Speaker 2:So Well, our students do love their pastor, though.
Speaker 3:I do love them, and we have fun to go. I get to play ball with them. And, last year, we were playing Joe Meyer softball, and a couple of the kids were out youth were out behind me. I always play third base, and one of the one of the bigger guys there just hit a rocket right at me. Just and if it's on the ground, I don't catch them anymore.
Speaker 3:You know? You I played third base a lot, so used to. I would field everything. Now if it's a hard hit ground ball, I just move out of the way. I think, you know, it's just not that big a deal.
Speaker 3:But this one was just a line shot right at me, it just caught it. Anyway, one of the youth was behind me, and he was like, Doctor. Wiles, man, you can catch a line drive. I said, Well, still walking. I'm still upright.
Speaker 3:I've got a glove on. But he thought that was the coolest thing. Came over and gave me a high five. So I love just hanging out with our youth and then watching them worship. It's Oh my just so powerful to see that generation of kids, come before the Lord in that kind of en masse, so to speak.
Speaker 3:It's it's a it's a real blessing. It always encourages me and just, revives my spirit. Of course, Riverbend's holy ground to us. We've been going there for so long, for so many other things besides camp. Right.
Speaker 3:Excuse me. It's just a special place for us personally, would say, but also for our church.
Speaker 2:Gosh. Looking
Speaker 1:forward to it. Like I said,
Speaker 2:our students love their pastor. And I think what you're saying about these students, I think in this generation of students, are a lot of apostles, a lot of prophets.
Speaker 1:What a transition. Wow.
Speaker 2:A lot of evangelists.
Speaker 3:Somebody's paying attention over there. Okay. Yeah. Well let's talk about it.
Speaker 2:Lots of shepherds, teachers.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:And a lot of saints too. Okay.
Speaker 3:I I would agree with that. Well if
Speaker 1:you haven't caught on yet, Tanner is alluding to Sunday's sermon. That's where I reached out of Ephesians chapter four. That's as good of a segue as I think we'll ever get.
Speaker 3:See, he's into it, man. So let's let's talk about Sunday. You know, this whole season, Eastertide, shaped by the spirit Mhmm. Has been our guide. And we've talked a little bit about that in here that, you know, when I'd say when I got to Southwestern Seminary, I had been reared in the church, I I was in Sunday school my whole life for the most part.
Speaker 3:But I had not really, given serious attention to my theology. My theology was much more probably a little bit by osmosis from my parents in real solidly biblical church, but uber conservative, and certainly not in any way charismatic. Just not So when I first began studying, and the way we did it at Southwestern, y'all do a little bit differently at Truitt. You take a little more of a narrative approach to theology, historical approach at Southwestern, everybody has to take systematic theology. So the pedagogy was a little bit, I think it still is, a little different than what y'all's was.
Speaker 3:So I'm in a systematic theology class. Well, I've never studied doctrine of the Holy Spirit. It's not like I've had given any thought to that conversation much. And, and while I'm taking that class, I'm in a a missions class with a man named Jack Gray, doctor Gray, one of the godliest men I've ever known. And Doctor Gray was a part in the seventies.
Speaker 3:There was a renewal movement at Asbury Seminary, and it kind of swept across the seminary, many seminaries at the time. And if you think back on that period in history, in the sixties, our universities, campuses were pretty much on fire. You know, there was a lot of, protests with the Vietnam War. In fact, when you study the history of American Christianity, you still read Sidney Alstrom's book, The Religious History of the American People. It's a thick, massive volume.
Speaker 3:He's a professor at Yale. He's retired now. He may not be alive anymore, not sure. But anyway, he's writing that book in the late sixties looking out his window at a campus on fire, if will. You So he talks about the end of Christendom as he knows it, he talks about how John Kennedy's elected president, a Roman Catholic has been elected president in The United States Of America.
Speaker 3:I know that's not very shocking to you all, but back then this was a protestant
Speaker 1:Oh, was scandalous.
Speaker 3:It was a protestant nation. So in other words, is the pope going to be running the country? You've got all these protests. So Alstrom's book, it's a massive volume. It's incredibly really, really well done.
Speaker 3:But it has a little bit of a negative feel toward the end because you can just sense in His spirit everything I know is just vanishing Well, in front of seminaries were facing some of that. They diminishing in number, actually. And then there's this renewal movement that just started to spread. It starts at Asbury, and it made its way to Southwestern. Well, Doctor.
Speaker 3:Gray was one of the men that led that movement at Southwestern, and it was a very spiritual, time. And it was also in the heart of a of a controversial time for many Baptists because they were worried about the charismatic movement. And so doctor Gray, I'm in his class, and he's talking about how this prayer group that he was a part of at Southwestern, these men, it was primarily men, professors, are praying for something to happen, and one of them one day just says, well, what if one of us were to start speaking in tongues? We would probably get fired because at that time, it was a controversial thing. Well, then all of a sudden this thing breaks out at Asbury, this Wesleyan school.
Speaker 3:So Doctor. Gray and those guys were saying, well, we need to bring that here. And then but they put they're a little nervous, but, you know, students get caught up in movements, and I don't mean that negatively. I'm just saying the spirit of God works. So doctor Gray is telling us all this while I'm studying systematic.
Speaker 3:And he tells us they finally got to the point where they just said, Lord, if you want us to speak in tongues, if you want us to have the gifts of healing, if you want us to have the gifts of prophecy, whatever it is, we're telling you we are open to it. Well, a huge renewal movement took place at Southwestern at that time. So Doctor. Gray was really humbled by that. He talked about his own personal transformation, how God He was kind of a harder edged professor, and that whole experience completely changed him.
Speaker 3:He became much more pastoral. And, and so I'm listening to him while I'm studying. And to me, the the the conversation I was having was very intellectual. It was very, theologically, rooted. But all of a sudden, I started having the spiritual renewal based upon mainly my relationship with doctor Gray, to be honest with you, which ended up being a very personal thing between me and the Lord where I had to tell the Lord whatever you want me to have.
Speaker 3:Because, you know, we were all a little nervous back then about, okay, what if what if you turn into some kind of a Pentecostal? Know that sounds weird to y'all, but back then that was actually a theme because you were thinking, may not be able to find my way in ministry in this world. So it was a very personal pivotal time for me. So my study of the doctrine and spirit kinda came at the same time that I had a personal renewal with the spirit. I don't know if renewal's the right word because I don't know that I ever had it, if that makes sense, because it was so intellectual for me.
Speaker 3:And, so since that time, I've tried to be faithful to allow the spirit of God to do whatever he chooses to do, and trust him, whatever that means. And in in a couple of churches I pastored, we we dealt with a little bit because, you know, again, believe it or not, there was a time if you walked into your kind of typical Southern Baptist church on a Sunday morning, there was nobody that had a hand raised unless they had a question. You know, that was just not it was just it was just not how it was. And, in my lifetime as a pastor, that's just completely changed. And, and I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 3:And so when I was praying over this series, I wanted it to be a spiritual journey for us, not just a not a theologically informed Yeah. One, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 3:So that's what I've been praying for. So then yesterday not yesterday. Today's Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Sunday.
Speaker 3:Sunday sermon. I wanted our our people to see you you and I have talked about this before. Don't think I've ever talked to Tanner about it, but I've talked to you about it. Is everybody one of these five, or are these five are these five people that are given to the church? And, you know, you may not be one of those.
Speaker 3:That's kind of where I am right now. I've I moved back and forth between there, so that's kinda where I am right now. And honestly, don't care. Whatever God wants to do, I'm good with it. That's kinda where You I
Speaker 2:know? In Ephesians four, it says that these offices, these people, this you know, whatever they you wanna use for that, they're meant to equip
Speaker 3:the Yeah. Rest of everybody. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But to bring them to the full measure of Christ. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So and I think every church should have these people in them. We need them. We do. And they to me, they blend together. They can they can, there's there can be friction.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They have very different impulses.
Speaker 3:Right. With them, which I think is actually good for the church, though, in the sense that because it's in that friction where you can find to make answers and clarity and hopefully come to better solutions for the overall church. Because, if if, you know, if the church was led only by apostles, well, you know, it would be a dissatisfied church all the time. You know I mean? Because apostles are just never satisfied people, typically.
Speaker 3:They always look for things and what could be and what should be and what could have been and what should have been. And I don't mean that negatively. I'm just saying I've I've I've dealt with enough apostles. It's just, there seems to be a hankering in them, you know? And you feel that kind of in Paul.
Speaker 3:You know, Paul has I think Paul had them all, to be honest with you. He's a unique person because he could stay somewhere in Shepherd. Yeah. But but he had a hard time. He wasn't called to stay somewhere a And long
Speaker 1:I would say this too, you know, if it's everyone or if it's just some people regardless, you can be supernaturally gifted in one of these ways by the Holy Spirit. But just because maybe you are gifted to be an apostle doesn't mean you're off the hook for shepherding.
Speaker 3:That's right. Yeah. It
Speaker 1:all You still gotta That's right. You still gotta If that's your natural bit Mhmm. You still have to develop that shepherding skill or that teaching skill. I think we're all on the hook for learning to be I agree with that. Pulled in these directions.
Speaker 3:And the opposite is true. If you're a shepherd, you're not off the hook for having some apostolic, appreciation because you can't just you know, a part of shepherding is not to leave the people where they are. Yeah. You want to help them mature and grow. So, but I love how Paul lays all that out for us.
Speaker 3:And and and, know, he does say in verse seven, each one of us has been given that's what I love about this. This is for everybody has been given us some type of a spiritual role to play in the life of the church. And I don't I kinda go back and forth too over I didn't take time Sunday morning to walk through this very much because I just didn't have time. But, you know, when people take these spiritual gift inventories, which I've done, and I think that they're fine, I think that we get this idea that if we have a spiritual gift, that that's our one spiritual gift for the rest our lives, and I and that this is an exhaustive list. In other words, Noah, there could not possibly be any other thing that God could gift you to do just besides the ones that are listed in first Corinthians 12, Romans 12, and here in Ephesians four.
Speaker 3:And I I don't know. The older I've gotten, I'm I'm I don't hold on to that quite as tightly as I used to. Like like, for example, you you look at the gift of of of music and and worship leadership. You just alluded to it, Tanner. I mean, it seems to me like some people are just spiritually gifted in that that arena.
Speaker 3:It's not technically mentioned in the text per se, but I just sense it in people that God has just equipped them. And, I don't know. I just I wonder sometimes if if we're a little bit too limiting both on the gifts themselves and on whether or not they can change a little bit. Now, I will say, like for me, I believe God called me to be a pastor. I think I have that shepherding tendency in teaching.
Speaker 3:I think that's who I'm supposed to be. But along the way, I have felt other gifts in me that have been more needed in the church, and I feel like God has provided them in different seasons of life. So I'm not sure what y'all think about that, but just that idea that things can change. It feels like that can happen to me. I think I've watched it, but I don't it's I don't think you have to get so locked in.
Speaker 3:You think, well, I can't do that anymore. I mean, I've got the gift of administration, so I can't I don't have the gift of mercy.
Speaker 1:Well, think if we get locked into, like, you know, this is my spiritual gift because basically the equivalent of a personality
Speaker 2:test
Speaker 3:told me it was. Yeah. We run
Speaker 1:the risk of turning the Holy Spirit into something like the force from Star Wars and we're just Jedi knights wielding this impersonal thing that we tap into based on some test result. Whereas in reality, the Holy Spirit is a person. It's one of the members of the Trinity and this is a dynamic relationship and by dynamic, it's powerful and it's changing and your relationship with the Holy Spirit will, it should change over the course of your life. You would hope. You would hope.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I almost wonder if I wonder if it wouldn't be better if we, as a community, took the spiritual gift inventory for you because we're the ones that see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That would actually that's
Speaker 3:I wonder about that.
Speaker 1:That's the wisdom of the Christian tradition though is actually when and you think about the times in your life and if you're listening or Tanner and then you both, I would love to hear stories about this. The way we actually are we best discover spiritual giftedness is by the discernment of the community around us.
Speaker 3:That's what I think.
Speaker 1:Because when we take a test online, we're engaging in an individualistic pursuit that's the same as me taking a Myers Briggs test. And maybe it'll point you in the right direction.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's okay.
Speaker 1:So are there stories that you guys have, you know, of times when the community around you pointed you, pointed out to you your spiritual giftedness.
Speaker 2:When I was a freshman in high school, growing up, the Watsons lived at one house and the Betzholds lived directly north of us, like the house directly north of us. So I spent And my parents just moved out of that house last year. So they lived in that house for over twenty years And the Betzolds lived there the whole time. The Betzolds have three siblings. They have a daughter Claire who's my age.
Speaker 2:They have a middle son Alex and then they have a younger daughter Sophie that's my little brother's age. When I was a freshman in high school, Alex lost his life to an undiagnosed heart defect so he would have been Wow. In the seventh or eighth grade. I was a freshman. Really tragic.
Speaker 2:And I was a freshman who felt a call to ministry and I had just lost a close friend, really a surrogate little brother. And I was sitting, my youth pastors had come to the Betzholtz house to help minister and they decided they were gonna go up to the school to talk to other junior high students. And they said, Tanner, you wanna come with us? So I hopped in the van with Nathan Bryant and Carla Rogers. We went up to the school and talked to students, sat with them and just had a lot of conversations.
Speaker 2:And as they were bringing me back home, Carla, female youth pastor turned around to me and said, Tanner, you're gonna make a good youth pastor someday. And that has sat with me. I've actually written papers about that moment in my life, the way the Lord had used those words and presented them to Carla, really, to give to me. So that's like this specific story of like
Speaker 1:That's how it works.
Speaker 2:Like literally someone seeing something in me. And come to find out, I'm a youth pastor now. Absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But this is I I mean, your story is so reflective. This is just how calling in the spirit works in general. I mean, you're just a lone ranger who goes, I have a calling Right.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And no one in the community around you, church community affirms that calling Mhmm. There's actually probably a really good chance you don't have that But it's when the community points to it. And as we see this in you, that's when you know the spirit's gifted you in a particular way.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. I mean, there stories from your life where that's happened with you? Yes. Several times. I was just thinking when you said that, Paul Powell, one of my mentors used to say, if you're leading and nobody's following, you're just taking a walk by yourself.
Speaker 3:Don't think you're leading. So but, yeah, one of mine, I've told y'all this tale before, was Cindy's great grandmother, Zinny Theodosius Bearden.
Speaker 2:Strong Christian man.
Speaker 3:That's right. Lived to be 105. And, Cindy, when I met Cindy, Cindy was living with her grandmother in Birmingham, attending college, and her grandmother was in her seventies. And when I met her grandmother, her name was Geneva June. And so, and we call her Mamaw, Mamaw Washington.
Speaker 3:So I meet Mamaw. She's the first time I've ever seen her in my life. She's all dressed up, pearls, purse, heels. It was Sunday afternoon, and I said, well, obviously, I mean, church was had been over for a while. I would have thought she was going to church, but it was, you know, like 03:00 in the afternoon.
Speaker 3:And I said, so, ma'am, are you are you going to visit someone? And she said, yeah, gonna see my mother. And I was like I mean, I looked at her and I'm thinking, okay. You're gonna see your mother if you're going to cemetery? Mean, mean, know, I'm just thinking, well, what does that mean?
Speaker 3:And she looked at me real funny. She said, my mother's still alive. And I was like, Oh, okay. Because she could tell I was a little puzzled. So anyway, about a week later, Cindy said, I want to go take you to meet Granny.
Speaker 3:That's my grandmother's mother. I said, okay, so we go to this nursing home there in Birmingham, and Cindy's mother was named Merle. So when by that, Granny was completely blind. And so when Cindy would go in to see Granny, she always thought it was Merle. She would hear Cindy's voice and just start talking to Merle because she and she knew Cindy.
Speaker 3:Once Cindy would tell her, you know, Granny's not Merle, it's Cindy, then she'd be fine. And she told me that. She said, I just want you to watch. When I walk in, she's gonna call me Merle because she always does. So we go in.
Speaker 3:She's sitting up in the bed, like I said, blind, kinda laying back on her pillow. And Cindy comes in, granny, hey. And she said, hey, Merle. How are you? And she says, well, it's Cindy.
Speaker 3:Granny, oh, okay. Hey, Cindy. You know, whatever. And she said, well, granny, I brought somebody with me today. He's a friend of mine from school, and his name is Dennis.
Speaker 3:And so she kinda reached out her hand and you know, so that I could touch her hand. And she's laying back kind of on a pillow. All a sudden, she raises up, and she turns and looks at me, she points a finger at me. She says, God has his hand on you, and He has a special plan for your life, young man. Then she just laid back down.
Speaker 3:Wow. Cindy looks at me. We'd only known each other.
Speaker 1:I would like to point out this before you went to Southwestern.
Speaker 3:Yes. Is a young man. This was before years spiritual renewal. I was trying to get medical school. I mean, I was a sophomore in college.
Speaker 3:I had no sense of being called to ministry, none whatsoever. I was still trying to play baseball, so we go to get in the car and Cindy says, what was that all about? I said, I have no idea. Said, well, you know my Tell Me. She said, my granny is a very spiritual woman.
Speaker 3:And I said, okay. And she said, well, what was that about? I said, I have no idea.
Speaker 1:It's not my fault.
Speaker 3:She said, well, why would she single she said, she has never done that. She didn't even know you. I don't even know you. And I said, I don't know. Turns out, you know, this woman had this spiritual insight.
Speaker 3:And then, when I started trying to discern the call of God in my life, I was a, I guess we're a junior, senior in college, I guess. There were people in my church, once I talked to the pastor about it and told him, he mentioned it to one of our, leaders who was our Sunday school teacher. Well, the Sunday school teacher came to find me that day and said, so, you know, let's talk about what you know, brother Jerry says, you've been having this conversation about a calling to ministry. I said, yeah. And he said, what's taking you so long?
Speaker 3:We've all been waiting. All talked, all of us in the leadership team have talked about this. We've been waiting on you to realize that's what God's called you to do. So that Sunday school teacher drove me and Cindy to Southwestern one summer to help us
Speaker 1:What a time to come to Texas.
Speaker 3:Yes, in the summer. We came out and interviewed with Southwestern, he's the one that brought us and even set the interview up for us. So yeah, all along. But I've got to tell you about Doctor. Gray, what a spiritual man he was.
Speaker 3:Years later, Doctor. Gray was in a wheelchair, blanket over his legs, and, I was attending, one of my professors' funerals in Fort Worth. I hadn't seen doctor Gray in I don't even know how many years it had been, many years, but but I struggled with seminary, and I tried to leave seminary. I went by to see doctor Gray, and he like I said, he was the one who had this profound impact on my life. And he, he looked at me, he got up behind his desk and he came around and he said, let me ask you something before you leave the seminary.
Speaker 3:Are you called to be here? Are you called to the ministry? I said, well, yes, sir. I said, but I'm but I'm gonna go back to Alabama. I'd already I'd already talked to people back in Alabama.
Speaker 3:I was gonna go back to medical school. I said I said, Graub, I'll be a really good Christian doctor. And he said, but have you been called by God? I said, well, yeah. He said, well, let's pray right now because if you've been called by God, you can't leave.
Speaker 3:You gotta stay and finish this and see what God does. So we prayed, I stayed, And, well, anyway, so I'd seen him on and off through the years. Hadn't seen him in many years. I was pastoring here, drive over to Fort Worth, go to this professor's funeral. I see doctor Gray and one of his daughters, I guess.
Speaker 3:And she's behind him in a wheelchair, and I realize it's Doctor. Grace. So I see her, and I kind of went around to her, and I just said, I said, Doctor. Jack Grace? She said, Yeah.
Speaker 3:I said, How's he doing? She said, Well, you know, it's hard. He's, but he's okay. And I said, well, can I is it okay if I talk to him? She said, well, he won't he he may not know who you are.
Speaker 3:But I said, who I know who he is. Who cares? It's Jack Gray. So I kneeled down, and I looked at him. I said, doctor Gray?
Speaker 3:And he looked at me and he leaned up in his wheelchair. He said, Dennis Wiles. And and she kinda looked at me and I kinda looked at her and said, remember that day you came by my office, you were gonna leave seminary? I said, yes, sir. And he said, I've prayed for you every day since that day.
Speaker 3:I I prayed for you every single day. He just kinda sat back in his wheelchair. It's the people of God that make all this worthwhile.
Speaker 1:God is good.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's how the spirit of God
Speaker 2:works in mind. And I think what we're talking about right now and how it's like the community and the body of Christ helping us figure out our own calls and our own gifts and our own profiles even helps it as it evolves too. Because we talked about there have been certain seasons of your ministry you felt like you just needed to be stronger in certain areas or lean on certain areas. And because ministry, I mean, you know, you've told the story already. When was the first time you went to a contemporary worship service?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. I went to Mount Paran Church of God years ago, and I left there thinking we just can't do that at Mount Paran Church. We're not ready, and I don't know that I'm ready. I was glad I saw it. I left early,
Speaker 1:to be honest with you.
Speaker 2:But that is a testament to the evolution of just how the body of Christ changes and evolves according to God's call and how our own gifts and our own callings evolve with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And you think about right now, Tanner, the role that y'all are playing, you're already speaking some of that into these high school students about seeing giftedness in them, letting them lead. Y'all give them chances to lead. Camp's a great example of that. And we have people in our church today that are doing all kinds of things.
Speaker 3:Not all of them necessarily called to full time ministry, but leading. And some of them will tell you camp is when I it's the first time I led something. Camp was the first time I was trusted in something. So y'all are y'all are playing a huge role Mhmm. At a very formative time.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:In the
Speaker 2:last I wish few that coming up with like students leading their peers at camp was my idea because it's such a good one.
Speaker 3:It really is a great idea.
Speaker 2:And the way we see students flourish just because we we place them very deliberately. Like we we rarely and I don't know if we have since I've been here would put a first year family leader in their own group. Like have them lead alone. We pair them with someone who's done it for a year or so they can see how it's done and grow. And we tell the adults very deliberately that sit in those groups, hey you're not here to lead this group.
Speaker 2:That's what this family leader, this student is here for. We we need you to help guide this group if things get off track or if there's a student that's being a little bit of a disruption Mhmm. Helping with that. But we believe deeply in how these students can lead their peers. And it it provides some beautiful results.
Speaker 3:Well, and the guy that invented that in our church is in our church, Bill Nichols. He was the youth minister a few years ago. I love the fact that we already see that in our youth ministry, Connor Toriyaba. Our college ministry too. So yeah, it's a pretty cool thing to see.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well we have one more week in the Easter tie
Speaker 2:We do.
Speaker 1:Pentecost series.
Speaker 3:Sunday, acts one. Okay.
Speaker 2:You got a red tie on Sunday? Is
Speaker 3:that what are
Speaker 1:you gonna do? Liturgical colors. But you're preaching on the Ascension.
Speaker 3:I am. Yeah. And You started. I started Pentecost. I did it a little bit different did a little backwards, but I hope it makes sense Sunday when I wrap it all together.
Speaker 3:We'll see.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll hope so.
Speaker 2:It'll be great.
Speaker 1:We'll see what happens. Okay. Well, thank you for listening, everyone. Tanner, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's always a pleasure. Nice to have you. I love both of you. Right.
Speaker 2:Have lot of respect for both of you.
Speaker 1:Likewise. Mhmm. K. Well, thanks for listening everyone, and we will be back next week talking about the Ascension. Check.
Speaker 4:Thanks for listening to the Tell Me More podcast today. You can subscribe to this podcast on your app of choice, or you can visit us at fbca.org to find out more information about the podcast and our church. Thanks for listening. Have a good day.