Tell Me More

Luke Stehr: 00:10

Welcome to another episode of Tell Me More. Katy Reed Hodges, doctor Wiles, and myself, Luke Stair, are here in the studio talking Psalm 127 and about how God meets us in everyday life. It's a conversation that we hope you'll enjoy, and we're glad you're here.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 00:32

Welcome to Tell Me More. We're here at doctor Wiles and Luke, and they are fresh off of a trip last week to Ascent.

Luke Stehr: 00:39

Where we both had, I think, the worst plane rides home we've ever had.

Dennis Wiles: 00:43

Oh, my

Katy Reed-Hodges: 00:43

Well, you referenced it yesterday in the sermon.

Dennis Wiles: 00:44

I do.

Luke Stehr: 00:45

But also been.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 00:46

Before we happened to the sermon and the Ascent series and that it's lent, do y'all wanna give us a little recap? Because I know you both had good energizing experiences and times with Ascent. So a little quick, it was cool more to come or you wanna tell anything specific? God in the everyday. So did you experience God in those days?

Dennis Wiles: 01:02

Yeah. It's cool more to come.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 01:04

It's cool more to come.

Dennis Wiles: 01:05

It's cool more to come. Okay. A movement of churches and, denominational entities as well. And we are just trying to build an alliance together, I would say, a community Yeah. To re evangelize North America and ultimately reach the whole world for Jesus and, build some synergistic relationships with each other, share some ideas, and also have enough structure

Luke Stehr: 01:38

of how you reach North America.

Dennis Wiles: 01:40

It'll be really good.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 01:40

It's a great entity. What whatever it will become in terms of its branding, of just the right people trying to solve a really good problem Correct. Which is how do we live life in community holding hands together to do the mission of God in this new day and age.

Dennis Wiles: 01:55

That's right. In a day where, you know, denominational lines are are skewed a little bit, denominational entities are struggling.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 02:02

Very different.

Dennis Wiles: 02:03

And so we're finding new ways for us to live together in community that aren't bound by some of those structures and actually cut across them. Yeah. And, just really good. And, we're theologically centrist, so we're not pulled to the extremes. And just a really good group of thoughtful Christians.

Dennis Wiles: 02:20

I was very encouraged. I was so glad Great. Our brother Luke was there with

Katy Reed-Hodges: 02:24

us. Yeah. Luke, anything from you

Luke Stehr: 02:25

before we

Katy Reed-Hodges: 02:26

hop into the Psalm?

Luke Stehr: 02:27

Just always thankful to be there. For me, I've been running in missional church circles ever since I was in seminary. So these some of these people I've known for a decade.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 02:37

And so it's always nice to be with

Luke Stehr: 02:39

them and to spend time with them. I find them very encouraging and thought provoking. So got some ideas that we'll

Katy Reed-Hodges: 02:46

see how they filter out into

Luke Stehr: 02:47

the life of our church.

Dennis Wiles: 02:48

Yeah. Much more to come.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 02:50

I love that. It was good more to come.

Dennis Wiles: 02:52

Yes.

Luke Stehr: 02:52

But we're

Katy Reed-Hodges: 02:52

saying no. It's great. Well, I know y'all are excited about it, so I wanted to give you a chance to just you're coming kinda landing the plane from that and onto this. Just let you

Dennis Wiles: 03:00

know the lord is at work, bringing like minded people together to accomplish his work.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:06

Wouldn't that go?

Dennis Wiles: 03:06

How like God. How like God.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:08

He's done it before. Mhmm. He's still doing it? Isn't that good?

Dennis Wiles: 03:13

And then we come to Psalm number 27. My Bible says a Psalm of Solomon. That's what my text says.

Luke Stehr: 03:21

So before we start

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:23

with something Trivia for y'all. Just not not premeditated at all. Just something I'm thinking about. How many Psalms are accredited to Solomon?

Dennis Wiles: 03:31

Pick me.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:32

Pick me.

Dennis Wiles: 03:32

Pick me.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:32

Yes. Did his wilds? I don't I don't mean to throw you off guard. I know you haven't talked about this beforehand. Oh.

Dennis Wiles: 03:37

Oh, let me think. I think it's Psalm 72.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:39

Oh my gosh. He's just so smart.

Luke Stehr: 03:41

How about that?

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:41

He's so smart. Just a

Dennis Wiles: 03:43

pastor. Pastor, you know? I mean, I do know the Bible. Plus, you just told me that.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 03:46

Yeah. We Googled it. We Googled it because we couldn't quite remember. We knew it. We knew it was to the listener.

Luke Stehr: 03:54

Sometimes it's not a bad idea to Google something that you don't know in the Bible. Be diligent, thoughtful, and thoughtful about the resources you use. Wow. But well said Luke, the Internet is a great tool and it can be used well and it can be used badly. So

Katy Reed-Hodges: 04:09

Mhmm. I have even I don't wonder I don't wanna chase this rabbit too far. But in preparing for bible study, doctor Rawls, I filled in for you last week where you were gone

Dennis Wiles: 04:17

Mhmm.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 04:18

Somewhat last minute.

Dennis Wiles: 04:19

Quite ably.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 04:19

Thank you. But I and I'm happy to serve in any way. But I, at the end of preparing the bible study, when I was trying to kinda pull in just to make sure I knew everything and kind of shore it up Mhmm. I find that, like, OpenAI, like a chat GPT is incredibly helpful. I would never use it.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 04:36

I need y'all to hear me this this church. I would never use it and just say, like, write me a bible study on Exodus 7 because it's lazy and I wouldn't trust it. And you need to put the work in just to do it right, I think.

Dennis Wiles: 04:45

Come on.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 04:46

I really do to honor all parties. But I was trying to remember some Egyptian I was trying to make sure I had my Egyptian religious context correct. Because looking at Exodus, they're in pharaoh's house.

Dennis Wiles: 04:59

I was about to say.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 05:00

And either I was gonna have to go find a book off the shelf to make sure I understood what I was gonna say about the Egyptian religious context or I was gonna ask chat gpt to make sure I was right. And so either there's a way to use it and there's a way not to use it. That's what I'm trying to convey. But But it was like, am I right when I'm saying this about pharaoh? What they would have viewed pharaoh as?

Katy Reed-Hodges: 05:21

And so, I mean, I really did ask it something like, how did the Egyptians view view how did the Egyptians view pharaoh from religious context in Exodus 7? Mhmm. And it was this great little paragraph and I was like, I thought that. I thought that was right, you know. And so if I was writing a paper, I wouldn't do it that way.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 05:35

But just to have that in the back of my mind and kind of share up what I thought was true, it's actually a good tool. It could be used very much in the wrong way very quickly, and I'm sure it already is. But for that, for what I wanted, it's pretty helpful. Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 05:47

Yep. I've never used it.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 05:50

It's Sorry. Scary good. It's scary good.

Dennis Wiles: 05:52

I've never seen Jurassic Park either. So to

Katy Reed-Hodges: 05:55

One of those is offensive. Once again church,

Luke Stehr: 05:58

which we're not. Place bets on whether to

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:00

talk to. Use chat GBT. Before watching Jurassic park.

Dennis Wiles: 06:07

I put my money on Jurassic park by real

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:09

That's a safer bet. At some point on

Luke Stehr: 06:11

encouraging gambling nor do we condone it.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:13

Or using AI inappropriately. Alright. There

Dennis Wiles: 06:16

you go.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:16

Okay. Good.

Dennis Wiles: 06:17

Awesome. Okay.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:18

So okay. We now approach.

Dennis Wiles: 06:22

Not only is Psalm 127 listed at least, as a Psalm of Solomon

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:27

Yes, sir.

Dennis Wiles: 06:28

It is a Psalm of ascent.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:29

Ascent. Wow. It is both of the But we know 2 things about it.

Dennis Wiles: 06:31

Questions was, why is this pre, Before we hit record. Pre podcast

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:36

Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 06:36

Why is this the Psalm of a Sin?

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:37

That's the first thing I thought this morning. I listened to the sermon this morning as I often do. Mhmm. And you read it before you got into it. No.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 06:45

And I was and I was reading and listening to it and thinking, what in the world? Yeah. All the other ones, I mean, not all the other ones, but what we've, you know, they you could kind of picture them holding in their heart or even saying it out loud as they travel up to quote unquote Jerusalem. This one is really practical. It's like how to live life in the everyday That's

Dennis Wiles: 07:02

right.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 07:03

Which is but get help help me understand because in my mind, the ascent to Jerusalem maybe only happens once in their whole life.

Dennis Wiles: 07:10

Right.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 07:11

Right? Yeah. Hardly God in the everyday. This is the miraculous mountaintop moment. Yet they're saying, hey.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 07:16

God's everywhere. Yeah. You know, God's in the

Dennis Wiles: 07:18

What a great reminder, though.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 07:20

God's where you build the house. When you watch over the city, like, when you go to your day to day and you go to bed and you rise up and you eat, that's where God is. Yet they're not doing anything like that. So, okay, help me understand.

Dennis Wiles: 07:30

But you're on your way to this potentially spiritually meaningful moment. And maybe maybe you maybe

Katy Reed-Hodges: 07:36

you do

Dennis Wiles: 07:36

it 3 times a year and so it's a little more recognizable to you. Maybe you only do it once in a lifetime. Yeah. But you're on your way to

Katy Reed-Hodges: 07:41

3 times a year for the festivals. For the festivals.

Dennis Wiles: 07:43

I'm sorry. Yeah. No.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 07:44

It's good.

Dennis Wiles: 07:44

Or maybe only once in a lifetime, but depending on where you lived. But here's the thing, as you make your way to the holy city, to this potentially meaningful moment for you, how, meaningful to me is it for you to be reminded though? That's not where you live. You don't, you don't live on the mountain. You don't live at the point of ascent.

Dennis Wiles: 08:05

You actually live in another place. And this is just a good reminder as you're on your way there. We're not going to leave God in Jerusalem. You know, we're not gonna leave God there in this space.

Luke Stehr: 08:14

Like the sermon that gets preached at the end of traditional youth camp camp.

Dennis Wiles: 08:19

That's right.

Luke Stehr: 08:19

You may have met God here. That's right. But God goes with you.

Dennis Wiles: 08:22

That's right.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 08:23

God does this. It's just so therefore,

Dennis Wiles: 08:25

turned and went home.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 08:26

Oh, I'm being so unhelpful in this moment. You've got to, doesn't it sound like a Psalm of decent, right? No. Keep this in mind.

Dennis Wiles: 08:32

Okay. As you're making your way there, keep this in mind that

Katy Reed-Hodges: 08:35

as we go Even as

Dennis Wiles: 08:36

you go

Katy Reed-Hodges: 08:36

there and have this holy

Dennis Wiles: 08:38

moment. Absolutely.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 08:38

You're gonna return to your day to day life. Reminded. Yes. So it's really, but though, though, then for Luke's analogy, it's what you tell the kids on the way to camp.

Luke Stehr: 08:46

Okay.

Dennis Wiles: 08:47

It's going to inform it all though.

Luke Stehr: 08:50

Tanner Watson's going to stand up on the youth camp bus and read Psalm 1 27

Dennis Wiles: 08:54

this year.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 08:55

Yeah. That'll be fine. On the way, on the way, on the

Dennis Wiles: 08:57

way as you go. You don't you don't leave your normal life behind in the sense that it's still so much a part of who you are. Yeah. You know, there's an experience awaiting you, but your context of your encounter with God, your expectations from God in your everyday contextualize and inform those meaningful moments. So I think it's perfectly appropriate on the way there

Katy Reed-Hodges: 09:16

On the way there.

Dennis Wiles: 09:16

To be reminded. God's everywhere.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 09:18

I say God's everywhere. That's not what we're trying to say. Yeah. But God appears in me everyday. Mhmm.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 09:23

Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 09:23

And, absolutely. And he does.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 09:25

And that's how we make up our life.

Dennis Wiles: 09:26

He does.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 09:27

Is through our day.

Dennis Wiles: 09:27

That's where you live. It turns out you live in the everyday. Right?

Luke Stehr: 09:30

I do.

Dennis Wiles: 09:31

And, and that's why I wanted to point out at the beginning of the sermon about how, you know, these miracles in the scripture are powerful. I love miracles, so don't don't get me wrong. I'm a I'm a miracle guy. I believe God is still in the miracle working business. I've seen him do some incredible things.

Dennis Wiles: 09:44

And and, and so but it it does amaze me at how many of these miracles take place in in the everyday of their lives. You know? Even like, you think about Jesus calm in the storm, the disciples are in the boat. Well, they've been in the boat many times in their lives in the middle of a storm. It's not always that unusual to them.

Dennis Wiles: 10:02

Maybe not their favorite thing. This one happened to be just a little bit more violent than normal, but it's in that moment of an everyday, somewhat experience of being out on the sea of Galilee. When a storm comes up, Jesus performs a miracle that they never had to get. He walks on water, you know, at one point, I mean, they just get encountered with God as they're living their lives, which we should as well. You know, we should as well.

Dennis Wiles: 10:24

We just I just think that we so often miss him. And that's what I was trying to drive home in this message. You know, this idea that you you sure would hate to live your everyday life and get to the end of it and say, man, I just never saw God Yeah. In my everyday life. You know?

Dennis Wiles: 10:41

Come on.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 10:41

And you don't I mean, you certainly don't wanna wait for No. The miraculous like, just waiting around for the big moments.

Dennis Wiles: 10:47

That's right.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 10:48

You know what I mean?

Dennis Wiles: 10:48

Yeah. That's why I tried to give an example. Yeah. I'm I'm leaving the airport. I'm an hour late.

Dennis Wiles: 10:55

Not not because it was my fault. It's crowded. There there there there's so many people. It's not unusual for me to run into people in the airport that I know. My goodness.

Dennis Wiles: 11:05

You've lived here a long time. But on that particular night, we're wading through a crowd. We didn't know anybody. And, and all of a sudden, we see this couple that we know very well, and we haven't I have no idea what they're doing, where they're going, why they're in the airport. They tell us about their child.

Dennis Wiles: 11:21

They're going to check on their child, a little bit concerned. And then they both say, what's the likelihood that we've run into you 2 right now? And and Cindy just said, let's just stop and pray

Katy Reed-Hodges: 11:34

right now. Moment that let's pray. Yeah. But they need it.

Dennis Wiles: 11:38

Right? And Cindy and I walked away from them. And I said, look at all these people in this airport, you know, and we're not even supposed to be here right now. We should already be home right now. But instead just so happened.

Dennis Wiles: 11:48

We run into them, they run into their pastor and their pastor's wife, 2 people that are very important to them and come on y'all.

Luke Stehr: 11:53

Well, and so what I love about that story and about what it teaches is that I think sometimes we can be tempted to see those things as just purely coincidental. Right. And go, oh, that was nice. And then move along with what's going on.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 12:09

Even we as Christians, right? Yes. Yeah. I mean,

Luke Stehr: 12:11

even maybe even especially sometimes,

Katy Reed-Hodges: 12:12

but

Luke Stehr: 12:13

you and Cindy just had the gumption to think, well, what if what if something more is happening in this moment? What if God is up to something? Yes. Let's stop and honor that and pray. And so one of the things that we teach when we are training table groups to God and minister in our communities is we've taught this what's called missional prayer, and it's really walk into a space and you just ask God, what are you doing here?

Luke Stehr: 12:39

Mhmm. And how do I join?

Dennis Wiles: 12:40

Right. Mhmm.

Luke Stehr: 12:41

And so it's approach this Psalm is about approaching life with that attitude. It's, God, what are you doing in this space? How do I join in the work that you're already doing? And so when you go into to your workplace, when you go through the airport, when you walk into your office, your grocery store, the park, you just think, god, what are you doing here? How do I join?

Luke Stehr: 13:00

And then you start looking, and you happen to bump into a couple, and they were in spiritual need, and you were there Mhmm. To pray with them, to be with them. God is up to us.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 13:11

God gets the glory from it, but also you get to be in that moment,

Dennis Wiles: 13:14

realize being a part of that. Yeah. I felt like I was even more blessed than they were. Cause again, it just reminded me that God is at work in my everyday life. Right.

Dennis Wiles: 13:24

And there it is. I mean, I just experienced it.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 13:26

And and Let you be part of it. It's been

Dennis Wiles: 13:28

a novel to me.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 13:28

You

Dennis Wiles: 13:29

know? And, and so, yeah, I'm I'm so grateful that happened. And and then, you know, just as I thought about just what had happened to me over the weekend, you know, when you talk about your children, I I love the imagery of the way it talks about children in this text, but your children aren't inherent as we normally think that

Katy Reed-Hodges: 13:47

Yeah. Tell me tell me more.

Dennis Wiles: 13:48

Our inheritance, but children are You

Katy Reed-Hodges: 13:50

got the Hebrew?

Luke Stehr: 13:51

You know? Yeah. I I can Hebrew it.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 13:52

Yeah. Tell me what that means.

Dennis Wiles: 13:54

Because that word comes out of Joshua really that when God starts apportioning the land, I think the words used 50 times in Joshua. I'm giving this to you as an inheritance, you know, from me to you.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 14:07

And

Dennis Wiles: 14:07

then the the Solomon says, well, that's really who children are. You know? They're they're that. They're an inheritance to you. They're a reward,

Katy Reed-Hodges: 14:16

which

Dennis Wiles: 14:16

I also I thought was hilarious for payment for your wages. I was thinking seriously.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 14:19

My NIV says heritage. A rule the reward.

Dennis Wiles: 14:23

Yeah. Yeah. Heritage, inheritance, reward, payment. Yeah. Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 14:26

That imagery is not usually associated with children. You know, when I think about children, I think they're not my payment. They're I mean, I pay for them.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 14:34

And you didn't hear it. You didn't hear it.

Dennis Wiles: 14:37

So but I love how it kind of flips the script a little bit. And it's just this idea that it is in every arena of your life, you know, look for the Lord in it, or just live it all on your own. And and then it's it's different than Ecclesiastes. You know, Ecclesiastes vanity event is different Hebrew word, 2 different words. Table.

Dennis Wiles: 14:58

But, you know, the vanity event is in in in in Ecclesiastes. Man, I did all this and I accomplished it and it means nothing. This is a little different. It's just saying, if you choose to do it all, then I'm just going to go ahead and tell you it will amount to nothing. That's not your conclusion.

Dennis Wiles: 15:14

That's the conclusion I'm giving you. Does that make sense? I'm telling you, I'm

Katy Reed-Hodges: 15:17

letting you know,

Dennis Wiles: 15:18

do it You can do it on your own. Go ahead. Yeah. Accomplish everything.

Luke Stehr: 15:21

And just do it.

Dennis Wiles: 15:21

God,

Luke Stehr: 15:22

Hebrew wise versus the Ecclesiastes vanity versus this is Ecclesiastes is the word hebel, which is mist. So it's where we get Abel's name is life is short. It's a vapor. This is it's futile. Yeah.

Luke Stehr: 15:34

It's worthless. It's false. Go ahead and

Dennis Wiles: 15:36

do it. I mean, that's what you intend to do. Go ahead. That's what you'll find out. Just really didn't mean anything.

Dennis Wiles: 15:42

You know, how sad to miss God on the everyday because that's where he's working. You know, he's the the the miracle of the everyday, you know, just the the wonder, of of watching things happen and you just see god's hand in it. You know, watching, like, after, on Sunday afternoon, we took, our 3 youngest grandchildren to the park. So Gideon and Ada and Adler and, Cindy and I and Josiah and Adrian came. And watching little Adler now, she's in between Gideon and Adler.

Dennis Wiles: 16:14

Okay? So you can see she's drawn to both of them. Sometimes she wants to play with Gideon and be younger,

Luke Stehr: 16:20

you

Dennis Wiles: 16:21

know, and kind of do what he does, and then she's watching Ada get on these bars, you know, and start doing all this gymnastics stuff. Well, then she's decided, well, I don't want to play with this stick. I want to go climb on that. And I'm thinking, well, actually, you're probably a little closer to the stick, but you're really you're really above Gideon, but you're not quite on these bars just yet. But but to see her sense of accomplishment when I finally lifted her up and she, she started grabbing ahold of things as she was watching ADA and she realized, okay, I need to move this hand to this.

Dennis Wiles: 16:52

And she said, watch me, poppy. I'm like ADA. And just to see the wonder in her, well, that's a god moment to me. It's just me watching something happening inside a child Yeah. That to me is is something the lord has put in her.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 17:04

And it

Dennis Wiles: 17:04

was very again, I was just I just thanked God. I said, well, thank you. Let me be here for this right here to see a sense of accomplishment, you know, in my grandchild. And, you know, when the scripture says you're blessed, if you see your children's children, my thought that very thing right then in that moment, I thought I just preached about this.

Luke Stehr: 17:19

And

Dennis Wiles: 17:19

so, Hey, y'all, this isn't just, this is real deal. Yeah. And we're trying to be like her sister. This is actually me watching a child take steps towards something that's really a God thing inside of her. So that's what I mean.

Dennis Wiles: 17:31

Don't don't miss out on it. You know, be be thoughtful, be look and ask the Lord. Show me

Katy Reed-Hodges: 17:36

Jack right now, Jack is an expert cup stacker. Killing it. Sam and Ben are not bad, but, man, you get Jack alone with those.

Dennis Wiles: 17:45

You can do them.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 17:46

He's an analytical guy.

Dennis Wiles: 17:48

Well, we'll see if he can stack cups while Sam knocks them over. So that will be the real

Katy Reed-Hodges: 17:52

It's actually Ben.

Dennis Wiles: 17:53

Was it Ben? Okay. That will be the test.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 17:54

It's with yeah. I've got a I've got a bruise to prove it. Ben bit me. I think that is anger and Jack. Anyway, that's not a you're not there.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 18:02

But you see these lights come on and there is. It's, it's, it's, it's a small miracle. I don't know how you, even if it's small, it's just a miracle.

Dennis Wiles: 18:08

It is to see it and to watch it. And so I love to see that with children, but you know, your your work, I mean, when when the when the he paints this picture of you, you know, getting up early and staying up late and tolling for your food, not in a positive way, not not extolling your work ethic, but just saying if you put everything into your work and you think that's where everything's gonna come from for you and your whole identity is in that. Mhmm. Well, you know what? Here's what you're gonna discover.

Dennis Wiles: 18:35

We'll go ahead and warn you. You know, it's just gonna be vain for you. Yesterday, what my favorite golfer right now is Scottie Scheffler. I love Scottie Scheffler. Why?

Dennis Wiles: 18:45

And, he's just first of all, he's just really good. He's the best golfer on the planet. He's been number 1 number 1 ranked golfer now for over a year. And, he's from here locally. He's a really strong Christian.

Dennis Wiles: 18:57

And, I was able to attend. He won the players championship last year. He's won the masters before that. And yesterday, I was pulling for him because he was playing in one of my favorite golf tournaments yesterday, which is Bay Hill, which is Arnold Palmer's golf tournament, who was my all time favorite golfer. But, anyway and so I so wanted Scottie to win, you know, and he won yesterday.

Dennis Wiles: 19:17

And, I

Katy Reed-Hodges: 19:17

was really proud of him.

Dennis Wiles: 19:18

He won $4,000,000, by the way. Just just saying.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 19:20

Oh, it's a change.

Dennis Wiles: 19:21

Yep. Just but here's what he said when the tournament was over. Because everybody's been dogging because he's the best ball striker maybe since Tiger Woods. He's had a hard time putting, so he hasn't won a bunch of tournaments, but he's always in the top 3 or 4 because he, you know, he struggles with his putting. We'll finally get his putting altogether this weekend, and he won by 5 strokes.

Dennis Wiles: 19:39

It was almost like a joke, but never mind. He was interviewed after the tournament, and his wife's pregnant with their first child. Like I said, they're very strong Christians. And they, they just said, hey, man, you had won. It's been almost a year now, I guess.

Dennis Wiles: 19:51

However, since you've won, you're still the number one rank off in the world. And they kind of went on and on about his putting. And, man, you you just have just so good to see it all. And and they finished it. He said, man, I just really love my life away from golf.

Dennis Wiles: 20:03

You know, I mean, my wife and I are happy and expecting my first child. We've got great friends. And, I took a couple weeks off, just hung out with my family and my friends, and that's actually where I live. I mean, I don't I don't find my identity in golf. I love playing golf.

Dennis Wiles: 20:17

And, you know, obviously, I make a great living at it. And it's it's really fun for me and I enjoy it and I take it very seriously. But to be honest with you, man, I just love my life. I love the life I have that y'all don't know anything about. And I just thought and that that,

Katy Reed-Hodges: 20:31

you

Dennis Wiles: 20:31

know, if you put everything in to even a guy like that, this whole performance based here's what the Psalmist says. We'll go ahead and do that factor God out of it. And guess what? You're going to come to the end of it and go, man. What a waste.

Dennis Wiles: 20:44

You know, what a waste. My job is a servant. You know, it's not my master. It's it's a servant. It's a it's it gives me an opportunity to find my place in this world, to take my skills and gifts and abilities and somehow contribute to the

Katy Reed-Hodges: 20:57

common ground. You did a good job yesterday kind of making sure that they heard that work is a good thing. Absolutely. And it's

Dennis Wiles: 21:03

it's not the curse.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 21:04

And so it was highly viewed throughout scripture. However, in this, it's a good balance to that, maybe a good warning. Yeah. Don't let it get

Dennis Wiles: 21:12

involved. Keep God's perspective there. And then the psalmist says, and then you can sleep at night. It's like the rhythms are restored. I'm a big rhythm guy.

Dennis Wiles: 21:21

I just believe in rhythm. I wish I had more of it when it comes to, like, dancing and all that kind of stuff.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 21:26

No. No.

Luke Stehr: 21:26

It's hard when you grow up Baptist.

Dennis Wiles: 21:27

No. Yeah. I'm okay. I mean, I'm not great. I'm okay.

Dennis Wiles: 21:31

But I'm just a big rhythm guy. I think that God has put for whatever reason rhythm in his creation. You know, it's a weekly rhythm. It's a daily rhythm. Mhmm.

Dennis Wiles: 21:40

I I mean, I've I feel it in my own body.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 21:43

How'd the time change go for y'all? Speaking of rhythms.

Dennis Wiles: 21:45

It wasn't too bad for me.

Luke Stehr: 21:46

I'm surviving. I was

Katy Reed-Hodges: 21:47

tired this morning. It wasn't too bad for me. Okay.

Dennis Wiles: 21:49

Well, I'm what y'all are doing because y'all are young. Here's what I love about time change now. When I was younger, y'all's age, you know, you had to change every clock in the VCR,

Katy Reed-Hodges: 22:01

DVD, the shit you're talking about.

Dennis Wiles: 22:03

And now everything is smart. You know, it's kinda changes us like, wow.

Luke Stehr: 22:07

That's awesome. If only my child's circadian rhythms were also smart.

Dennis Wiles: 22:11

Oh, yeah. True.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 22:12

I know. That's a problem. Yeah. Anyway, rhythms. You do

Dennis Wiles: 22:15

well with rhythm. I believe God built us for rhythm. He's just put it in us. He's hardwired it in, you know, and it's almost like you and you can't fight it. I guess you can.

Dennis Wiles: 22:24

But you know what? Like like when they do those studies where people go for a long time and don't sleep, how they get weird or you know what I mean?

Luke Stehr: 22:29

It doesn't take long.

Dennis Wiles: 22:30

Yeah. It's just it just does something to you.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 22:34

We're fragile, aren't we?

Dennis Wiles: 22:35

Yeah. The rhythm to me in the universe, you know, in the weather seasons, I don't know. And so I feel like that's kind of what he's saying. If you if you wanna get everything out of sync, then factor God out of your work life. Go ahead and do that.

Dennis Wiles: 22:48

Then guess what? It's not just a loss of sleep. It's almost like a loss of purpose, but then he says, but I will give sleep to my beloved. And there's where I think Luke, there's the little shout out to Solomon, the, the, the Hebrew word Jedediah. I mean, Jedediah is the name that's given to him.

Dennis Wiles: 23:05

But there's that connection to that word there. Maybe that's his autograph, you know, that it really is Solomon, maybe. Indeed. So

Luke Stehr: 23:12

Before the podcast, one of the things we were talking about is one of the complexities of Hebrew is that words mean so many

Dennis Wiles: 23:21

things. So many. Pregnant with meaning.

Luke Stehr: 23:23

No no word is more pregnant with a meaning than the participle LA.

Dennis Wiles: 23:30

Yes. Right.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 23:31

Which is the letter L in Hebrew.

Dennis Wiles: 23:32

Such a simple word.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 23:33

What's it mean? And where is it in this?

Luke Stehr: 23:36

If you saw Solomon that of in Hebrew is one letter that comes before

Katy Reed-Hodges: 23:42

everything. It comes before everything. Is that what I'm hearing from you?

Luke Stehr: 23:46

To toward in through before at with before until so that in order to by means

Katy Reed-Hodges: 23:53

of context.

Luke Stehr: 23:55

So that one of, can mean by Solomon or Solomon to Solomon with Solomon. Right. So we were joking. Maybe Solomon didn't write this on, but I think it's still an important song.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:08

And where's the beloved? Where's the beloved part?

Luke Stehr: 24:10

Yeah. It's the to our to those

Dennis Wiles: 24:12

he loves. He grants sleep to the to his beloved.

Luke Stehr: 24:16

Yeah. Toes.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:17

Oh, mine says to those he loves.

Luke Stehr: 24:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:20

What you reading over there?

Dennis Wiles: 24:20

Well, it's mine says to those he loves, but in my part before

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:24

I You know.

Dennis Wiles: 24:24

Chat BLK or whatever that thing's called.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:26

Chat BLK? I don't

Dennis Wiles: 24:27

know what y'all called.

Luke Stehr: 24:28

Chat BLT. That's what

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:29

I'm calling.

Dennis Wiles: 24:30

Whatever. I can't even remember what

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:31

Hit us up at chatbok.com. It's it's chat GPD.

Luke Stehr: 24:35

Whatever it is before

Dennis Wiles: 24:36

I did that, I actually went and just did a little Hebrew homework.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:39

Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 24:39

And it's this to my beloved, okay, which is Solomon's name in 2nd Samuel when the Lord says he's gonna give this child name him Jedidiah, my beloved, the one that So

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:50

for those that have ears to hear or read Hebrew

Dennis Wiles: 24:54

Yeah.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:54

You're saying, that validates

Dennis Wiles: 24:56

Kinda.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 24:56

That perhaps this is Solomon writing it. That it's of Solomon, not just for through unto

Dennis Wiles: 25:02

Yeah. I gonna I'm gonna go with that.

Luke Stehr: 25:03

I'm not doubting. Yeah. Solomnick authorship. Right. We were just

Dennis Wiles: 25:07

but it's a great word about Hebrew. That's one of the things. That's why I'm more of a Greek guy.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:12

I doubt you if you don't.

Dennis Wiles: 25:12

Because Greek, even though, you know, it's written by, these Easterners, you know, the scripture, Greek's more of a western language, so it's very precise and much more, particular huge vocabulary. Luke is Luke is our Hebrew guy. He loves Hebrews.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:30

We should have got a pick on

Dennis Wiles: 25:31

a tree

Luke Stehr: 25:31

in Hebrew.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:32

Okay. If Dennis Weil says that Greek is precise, Luke, what would you say about Hebrew? Hebrew is

Luke Stehr: 25:38

Adaptive.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:39

Adaptive. Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 25:41

That's probably true.

Luke Stehr: 25:42

It is. Adaptive or fluid.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:43

That's good. Yeah. That's that is a good word for it.

Dennis Wiles: 25:46

I think it is full. It's just hard for me.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:48

Well, it's different. It is otherworldly. Truly. It is very different.

Dennis Wiles: 25:52

Written from right to left and yeah. All of that.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:54

It's beautiful though.

Luke Stehr: 25:55

It is it is beautiful.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 25:56

In fact, in this one, you were saying the first half of it, if you in the Hebrew, it's obvious that it all starts with the same preposition, the same

Dennis Wiles: 26:02

Well, in vain.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 26:03

In vain.

Dennis Wiles: 26:03

In vain.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 26:04

Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 26:04

In vain.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 26:05

It's got more it's got more rhythm. Hebrew.

Dennis Wiles: 26:06

There's your poet.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 26:07

And with more beauty to it than the translation would let us allow. It does. Would allow us to know.

Dennis Wiles: 26:11

But then also you get this this comment about your city, you know, which to me speaks to our our what I called yesterday, our civic responsibility. You know, the Lord, if if the lord's not watching over the city, well, then all your guards are watching over it in vain. In other words, if you're not you're not acknowledging god now, I would just say we should still feel that in our own setting that we have a certain civic responsibility as the people of God. It's a little different because we live in a free society. I get that.

Dennis Wiles: 26:50

Right. But the way we participate in it is is what

Katy Reed-Hodges: 26:53

I was trying to point out

Dennis Wiles: 26:54

to our people. Give God a chance to guide you in your participation, you know, to guide your emotions, you know, to guide your your sensibilities and and and to learn how to live out your convictions in a way that's consistent with your Christian faith. There's nothing wrong having convictions. There's nothing wrong being passionate. There's nothing wrong with, you know, being a politician.

Dennis Wiles: 27:14

There's nothing wrong with working for the government. All those things are fine. But to me, if you choose to always live with vitriol and vengeance and hate and anger and greed, if if that's just the tenor of your life, I just can't reconcile that with with a Christian perspective. No. I just can't.

Dennis Wiles: 27:34

Mhmm. I can get frustrated, of course. My goodness. And I understand some of the frustration, but I don't believe that that I live in in that tenor Mhmm. And also don't believe that I'm supposed to always be motivated by fear.

Dennis Wiles: 27:49

I just I just don't think that's biblical. And so, that's what I get frustrated with when I when I when I watch what's happening in front of me and how how all this plays out right now politically. I'm I'm hopeful that Christians, you know, will will kind of come to our senses a little bit and be more prophetic and be more of a conscience, you know, like Martin Luther King.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 28:12

That's a good quote yesterday.

Dennis Wiles: 28:14

Be the conscience. Don't be the servant of the master. Mhmm. I'll never forget when I was in seminary, you know, we we we were listening to all these different people tell us, you know, how to approach, you know, our our expressions of our faith. And one of the things that was going on back then was, in I was in seminary in the eighties.

Dennis Wiles: 28:35

We've had this revival in those days of the I said revival. It's not that word. Yeah, the shift, I guess, is a good way to put it, to where evangelicalism was becoming politicized in some ways. It was very early on when that was happening. And and so there were we had people who came to seminary to talk to us about how do you take this passion, this conviction that you have, this desire to to serve in any arena and live it out as a Christian.

Dennis Wiles: 29:05

So Bill Moyers was one of our speakers one day, and he was the, I think he was the press secretary for Lyndon Baines Johnson for LBJ LBJ. K? But he went to Southwestern Seminary. He got a degree in ethics under doctor Maston,

Katy Reed-Hodges: 29:22

but

Dennis Wiles: 29:22

he found himself in the political arena. And what he told us was after he had done that, he said, you know, in the sixties, man, it was the, you know, war on poverty and the war on drugs. And he said, I got caught up in it and, you know, the the Kennedys were bringing Camelot to the White House and LBJ was kinda riding their coattails. And I say that respectfully to LBJ. LBJ was a very adept politician, but what I mean, he wasn't as popular as John Kennedy Lipsby.

Dennis Wiles: 29:48

I'm talking about in America. He was in Texas, but you know, not in America. But then he ends up being president. Well, Bill Moyers kinda goes in with him. And Moyers said, man, be careful because you get in and the power and the prestige and all that just takes over, and you just lose all perspective.

Dennis Wiles: 30:09

And he said the next thing you know, you just become an agent. You know? And he said one day, he said I was I was leading a prayer at the White House. We were in and the president asked me, Bill, lead us in prayer. And he said I was on the other end of the table.

Dennis Wiles: 30:23

And he said I started to pray. And he said I got about a third way through my prayer. And he said, the president said, Bill, speak up. I can't hear you. And Moyer said, well, I wasn't talking to you, sir.

Dennis Wiles: 30:35

And he said, all of a sudden, it hit me. That's how LBJ just viewed the world. He was president. I'm not dogging LBJ. Point was, he said, I'm sitting there thinking this man thinks everything is connected to revolves around funnels through him.

Dennis Wiles: 30:53

And he said, I just had this moment of what have, what have I done? He said it was way more than that, but that was that signal moment of him going and be careful who you climb into bed with. Be careful because if you're not careful, you will just get sucked in and not even realize it. And he said, it happened to me. And he said, I finally had to start distancing myself and be more of a prophet and more of a conscience than just being a servant to a cause.

Dennis Wiles: 31:20

And I'll never forget that. I thought, what a great word, you know, because even though I have political convictions, I have things that I think are important.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 31:28

Mhmm.

Dennis Wiles: 31:29

I'm trying to make sure that those are filtered through my core convictions as a Christian. So things like dignity and and justice and value in human life and honoring, people and being thoughtful about how I communicate. All those things really matter because I'm a Christian. You know? Yeah.

Dennis Wiles: 31:49

And even though they may not matter to my society right now, you can say whatever you wanna say. You can say it in whatever tone you wanna say it in. I live in an all caps culture right now. You know? And I can either choose to participate in that or sit on the sideline.

Dennis Wiles: 32:02

Okay? Well, I don't believe I'm supposed to sit on the sideline, but at the same time, I've gotta be thoughtful about how I participate in it.

Luke Stehr: 32:08

Mhmm.

Dennis Wiles: 32:08

And, I just refuse to be drawn into the all caps. I'm just I'm not gonna be drawn into it.

Luke Stehr: 32:14

Mhmm.

Dennis Wiles: 32:14

I'm gonna try to be thoughtful about my civic responsibility and live that out as best I know, and do it in a in a Christian way. It doesn't mean you have to be, you know, mealy mouth, you don't believe in anything. There

Katy Reed-Hodges: 32:27

are certain things I really need to be in.

Dennis Wiles: 32:28

Yeah. I really believe in them and I'm gonna vote my conscience and I'm gonna talk about them as I need to, but I'm gonna do it in a way that's consistent with who I am in Christ, you know, and model that.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 32:39

Good. Because there are things right now politically that are worth our attention.

Dennis Wiles: 32:43

Absolutely.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 32:44

And even worth being upset about. Yes. Of course they are. But when they become our identity

Dennis Wiles: 32:48

That's right.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 32:49

Or take us away even at an emotional health level Right. Then they've become our God. Right? And that's what we have to be careful about.

Dennis Wiles: 32:55

Gotta invite god in. I have to invite god into that conversation with me. And so, you know, it's, it's like, when the old I don't know if this is true or not, but we've we always tell it to be true. Somebody said to Abraham Lincoln during the civil war, man, aren't you glad we're,

Katy Reed-Hodges: 33:13

you

Dennis Wiles: 33:13

know, that god's on our side in this war? And Lincoln supposedly looked at him and said, I'm not worried I'm not really interested in god being on my side. I'm actually more interested in making sure I'm on his side. And I like that. You know?

Dennis Wiles: 33:26

Yeah.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 33:26

Yeah. For those who have ears to hear.

Dennis Wiles: 33:28

You know, if you think about it, the God of my calls is is fraught because your cause is never big enough. It's just not, you know, God's just God. So, all causes are surrendered to him. And so our civic responsibility to me, that's a part of my everyday life. It just is.

Dennis Wiles: 33:47

And it's broader than just my political involvement on a national level. I live in Arlington, and so there are things that concern me about Arlington. And so I wanna be connected to governmental leaders, civically minded people, folks who are trying to help this be a better community. That's a part And so I try to be thoughtful about how I engage in those conversations and where I tend to put any influence that I might have as a citizen or as a leader in this community. I try to do that thoughtfully, you know, and not and make sure that I'm not just serving some, some obscure answers calls.

Dennis Wiles: 34:24

You know? It's just bigger than that to me. And that to me is so important. And so that's god only everyday though to me. You know?

Dennis Wiles: 34:32

For example, I'm asked many times to go lead a prayer at this or that, and and sometimes people ask me, why do you do that? You're just you know, it's almost like a token. I would say, no. It's not. Anytime I'm invited to be a part of anything in our community, I'm gonna try to do it as best I know how, if I can, with good conscience, but I'm gonna try to represent the cause of Christ.

Dennis Wiles: 34:51

And I always I always recognize that if I'm asked to lead in something like that, I'm really doing that on my own because of the position I have. So when I get to the end of my prayer, I always say, and as a Christian, I'm offering my prayer in the name of Jesus, you know, and I would defend the right for for someone else to lead a prayer in the however they choose to pray. I get it. I live in a pluralistic society, but I wanna be thoughtful about how I engage there because I have civic responsibilities. So to me, that's what I love about this psalm.

Dennis Wiles: 35:21

You know, that's why I think it's a psalm of sin. I'm on my way up.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 35:23

Mhmm.

Dennis Wiles: 35:24

I'm gonna go worship. I'm gonna experience this maybe for the first time.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 35:27

Mhmm.

Dennis Wiles: 35:27

But as I go along the way, I need to be reminded, you know, where God is? God's already in this moment. I'm not gonna meet god in Jerusalem.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 35:34

You

Dennis Wiles: 35:34

know? I'm I'm actually with him right now. He's a part of where we are right now. Good. Now I may meet him in a new way in Jerusalem.

Dennis Wiles: 35:40

I may have a different experience in Jerusalem that I can't have anywhere else in the world. Now if I were a Jew and the temple was in place in Jerusalem, well, of course, I would think that. I can't offer up a sacrifice anywhere else but Jerusalem. Okay.

Luke Stehr: 35:52

No. You don't do that at all.

Dennis Wiles: 35:53

Yeah. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna celebrate, you know, the the day of atonement at my house. I get that. However, I am gonna experience God, though. You know?

Dennis Wiles: 36:03

And so, he's he's in the everyday. So that's how I feel about us. Okay? Sunday's a great day. I love Sundays, but I live in every day.

Luke Stehr: 36:14

Yeah. You know, people only spend a few hours at at church per week. That's right. Some more than others.

Dennis Wiles: 36:21

That's right.

Luke Stehr: 36:21

That's not a dime on

Katy Reed-Hodges: 36:22

the ones

Luke Stehr: 36:22

who spend

Katy Reed-Hodges: 36:23

less and

Luke Stehr: 36:23

show ones who spend more, but

Dennis Wiles: 36:24

it wouldn't hurt you to spend more. It wouldn't hurt you to spend

Katy Reed-Hodges: 36:26

more. There's a tipping point.

Luke Stehr: 36:29

I want you to spend less, go out. That's right.

Dennis Wiles: 36:32

Go out. The gospel.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 36:33

I'd say there's a balance. There's a rhythm.

Dennis Wiles: 36:35

There's a.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 36:36

As one might say.

Luke Stehr: 36:37

You know, even the Jewish expectation, it runs counter to the ancient world in which they found themselves because to the other ancients, their deity's presence could only be experienced in the context of their respective temples.

Dennis Wiles: 36:50

That's right.

Luke Stehr: 36:51

But Judaism flips that on on its head, has a temple and it's a place for significant religious observance. But the Psalms affirm this view in the Hebrew mindset that God is actually everywhere. You know, I can make my my bed in Sheol and even there,

Dennis Wiles: 37:08

God's there.

Luke Stehr: 37:08

God is there. And so God in the Hebrew framework, in the Hebrew worldview, which becomes our framework and our worldview, God is with us. God is pervasive. And it's not that God is in everything. We're not pantheists or panenvious, but God is present to us.

Luke Stehr: 37:26

He was present to his people. They had that belief. So while they have these special religious observances that are going to the temple, it's not a denial of the presence of God in their everyday life. Mhmm.

Dennis Wiles: 37:36

That's right. Which I think is very important. So what I would just say is find God in your life. Look for him. Find him today, tonight, tomorrow morning.

Dennis Wiles: 37:45

He's there, he's working, and he wants to meet you. I believe that.

Luke Stehr: 37:52

Well, that's as good a place

Katy Reed-Hodges: 37:53

to end as any Yep. See you next week. Thanks for listening to the Tell Me More podcast today. You can subscribe to this podcast on your app of choice, or you can visit us at fbca.org to find out more information about the podcast and our church. Thanks for listening.

Katy Reed-Hodges: 38:30

Have a good day.